Did people even ask for changes to AST, like they do / did for MNK and MCH?

[Limonia]

I don't think I'll ever understand this community's open double standard when it comes to WHM. One nuke + 1 dot + random occasional oGCD heal? Wonderful, amazing, best the job has ever been. Oh we're talking about a job that's not WHM? Horrible, awful, need to revert immediately, why would anyone enjoy this.

All I'm saying is, now that all three healers have been dumbed down to approximately the same level of boredom, I find it really interesting that most of this forum thinks this is both a wonderful thing for WHMs and a terrible thing for everyone else. Really gets the noggin joggin'.

The current lily system is a big improvement over the previous one.
I'm enjoying that aspect of WHM. And I think many others are the same. With the Afflatus heals they went in the right direction, to give WHM something at least. That doesn't mean WHM is wonderful or amazing, only compared to the absolute mess we had before. I hope healers will be better, more interesting, in the next expansion, without becoming even more dumbed down and/or clunky.

[MorionQ]

I’m returning after bouncing out in 4.2 and the AST changes make my brain hurt. Both AST and SCH look like they heard my complaints about controller button bloat and just canned everything..... despite those complaints being from 3.0. I will absolutely add to the pile that Balance was, literally, the only good card since it was purely beneficial in all situations. Everything else had some issue in certain situations, mostly resource management, that simply wasn’t a factor with Balance.

What little I’m gleaning from this recent patched I’ve walked into is AST was gutted of complexity and RNG.

[Grimoire-M]

SCH had one of the best designed kits in 3.0 and a lot of 4.0. Instead of bringing the other healers up, they nerfed SCH down.

And in a lot of ways (Mostly QA) it was warranted. Tank Mastery and the VIT gear changes solved more of the problem than people give it credit for though. Those on top of the SCH nerfs and the general reduction in healer complexity are what make everything absurd.

[Gravagar]

And in a lot of ways (Mostly QA) it was warranted. Tank Mastery and the VIT gear changes solved more of the problem than people give it credit for though. Those on top of the SCH nerfs and the general reduction in healer complexity are what make everything absurd.

No job deserved what SCH got. I wouldn't wish this kind of rework on even BLM, with their privilege status as Yoshida's Job of Choice that leaves even en-Balanced, Partnered samurais green with envy.


I mean, yeah, cutting the effectiveness of shields in half via under-the-hood changes was definitely a nerf. The reason people don't give them much credit is because the nerf was underhanded and wasn't written down in the patch notes. Can't argue with the point that the shadow nerf, plus homogenizations, plus over-simplification, plus SCH-specific kit evisceration were total overkill.

[ShinShimon]

No job deserved what SCH got. I wouldn't wish this kind of rework on even BLM, with their privilege status as Yoshida's Job of Choice that leaves even en-Balanced, Partnered samurais green with envy.


I mean, yeah, cutting the effectiveness of shields in half via under-the-hood changes was definitely a nerf. The reason people don't give them much credit is because the nerf was underhanded and wasn't written down in the patch notes. Can't argue with the point that the shadow nerf, plus homogenizations, plus over-simplification, plus SCH-specific kit evisceration were total overkill.

Hey, at least SCH still exists. Old AST is as dead as old MCH, and nobody asked for it.

[Gravagar]

Hey, at least SCH still exists. Old AST is as dead as old MCH, and nobody asked for it.

??? Old SCH is just as dead as those other ones, though?

[ShinShimon]

??? Old SCH is just as dead as those other ones, though?

Hey, you still have shields and your fairy. The AST changes are comparable to removing Lily entirely and giving you a pet mosquito, which gives a single random party member a 5% damage resist buff every 30 seconds.

[Grimoire-M]

No job deserved what SCH got. I wouldn't wish this kind of rework on even BLM, with their privilege status as Yoshida's Job of Choice that leaves even en-Balanced, Partnered samurais green with envy.


I mean, yeah, cutting the effectiveness of shields in half via under-the-hood changes was definitely a nerf. The reason people don't give them much credit is because the nerf was underhanded and wasn't written down in the patch notes. Can't argue with the point that the shadow nerf, plus homogenizations, plus over-simplification, plus SCH-specific kit evisceration were total overkill.

I'm more bothered by the sheer lack of need to tank heal beyond minimal resources and busters. Tank Mastery essentially replaced the HW fairy while being even more boring for both tanks and healers overall. But the general shift of mitigation duties onto DPS as well as the condensation of autoattacks to specific windows (often with none at all going out during mechanics the entire group has to juggle) also aids in that matter. It simply felt more fair in ShB where Tanks were guaranteed to have their DPS stance on most of the time so they actually got wrecked if you didn't maintain regens or fairy positioning near them. SCH's healing capabilities were overbearing, but in particular they never needed any help tank healing at all (which, again, mostly stemmed from Quickened Aetherflow's effects on their power level). I would be fine with more evenly distributed autos that hit for less alongside a change to Tank Mastery to be influenced by stance, letting tanks choose to go ham on DPS like they used to at a defensive and aggro cost. So long as we retained every other change we got, save the ShB launch nerf to Embrace, I think SCH would be in a decent position just by virtue of reintroducing the regen tax on AST/WHM again.

[Gravagar]

I'm more bothered by the sheer lack of need to tank heal beyond minimal resources and busters. Tank Mastery essentially replaced the HW fairy while being even more boring for both tanks and healers overall. But the general shift of mitigation duties onto DPS as well as the condensation of autoattacks to specific windows (often with none at all going out during mechanics the entire group has to juggle) also aids in that matter. It simply felt more fair in ShB where Tanks were guaranteed to have their DPS stance on most of the time so they actually got wrecked if you didn't maintain regens or fairy positioning near them. SCH's healing capabilities were overbearing, but in particular they never needed any help tank healing at all (which, again, mostly stemmed from Quickened Aetherflow's effects on their power level). I would be fine with more evenly distributed autos that hit for less alongside a change to Tank Mastery to be influenced by stance, letting tanks choose to go ham on DPS like they used to at a defensive and aggro cost. So long as we retained every other change we got, save the ShB launch nerf to Embrace, I think SCH would be in a decent position just by virtue of reintroducing the regen tax on AST/WHM again.

We do agree that this is mostly an encounter design issue, I think, and not a job design one. Right?
I'd be happier living in the timeline where WHM, AST, and encounter design in general were all buffed to keep pace with SCH, than the one where SCH gets disemboweled but encounter design actually becomes less healer-taxing rather than more... that being the one we're on now. The former sounds a lot more interesting to me.


I'd much rather see a reset of SCH to Stormblood, and pretend Shadowbringers didn't exist, than see this horridly broken edition of SCH evolve. It has very little job identity currently- not a whole lot better than a Great Value White Mage whose mom lets it have two minions!