Parsing? Drama? ToS? Solution!

[tdb]

But are the players who haven't got these basics down really putting their hands up for Ex/Savage in the first place? At lot of the players like me who don't consider ourselves ready for Ex/Savage have these basics in our toolkit, but we're not confident about lining up burst windows, tank swapping, knowing fights back to front, and all the other things that confer competence on a high-end hopeful.

As someone with the requisite mental capability to memorize a fight as well as the manual dexterity to execute the necessary maneuvers, but with some difficulty committing to the rigid schedules most statics have, I would appreciate having a solo trial as a way of perfecting my skills and hopefully joining random groups in PF without having to fret too much about whether I can perform up to expectations.

[tdb]

Oddly enough, that's roughly the purpose that Fausts used to serve in Alexander tiers. And players asked it away because it was getting tedious. It's difficult to include that kind of system to gameplay I guess.

Interesting. It never occurred to me they could serve that purpose. But then I didn't reach Lv60 until well into the Stormblood era, so I never got to see what Alexander was like with contemporary gear. And there wasn't much incentive to try it on savage.

Now in the high end scene, I'm not sure gating would work regardless. There are a lot of external factors about why people can be "bad" or why people can be "elitist". I don't think it's up to FFXIV to provide content to shave off those players (and I don't think it's possible). FFXIV can just enforce rules, and people who break them can face sanctions.

Savage and extreme content has one hard requirement: you must beat the boss before the enrage timer expires (or shortly after; some enrage mechanics allow pushing quite a bit into the enrage with good enough heals). That gives a minimum total party DPS for a successful clear. And that in turn gives individual player DPS. The different damage output of different roles must of course be accounted for. There will also be some variation between the DPS players, so some of them may have slightly lower than the required DPS and still clear the fight. But it's easier to perfect your DPS in a solo trial, free of distractions caused by other players. So if the trial is based on the bare minimum DPS required, it's probably enough to allow for the variance.

Healers are a bit of a difficult case here since their DPS output depends not only on how well the party avoids mechanics but also on the balancing of heals between the two healers. When I raided Omega savage with a static back in late 4.x, it was typical for me to get a low damage parse but a very high healing parse; for my co-healer this was the other way around.

It doesn't matter if it's your own lack of skill, a potato for computer or a poor Internet connection with high ping - if you can't meet the DPS requirement, you're not pulling your weight. It's regrettable that in some supposedly civilized parts of the world you still can't get decent Internet service, but if it's bad enough that you can't compensate for it with skillful play, the best thing to do is to admit your situation and ask if the group is okay with trying anyway. Demanding to be carried will get you nowhere. Maybe this is my own bit of elitism, living in a country where good Internet service is the norm. But at least I'm trying to be fair and base it on facts rather than a desire to farm the fight as fast as possible.

[EaMett]

There already is a system, it’s called content tiers. If ex trials are a struggle you probably aren’t ready for savage, if you try savage but getting past floor 2 is a struggle you know you probably shouldn’t grief a all floor savage static.

Was said streamer running an ultimate reclear when this happened? I wasn’t really paying attention

[KageTokage]

I would genuinely love if they had some kind of mandatory competence check for getting into savage raids, even it's just being able to destroy the associated target dummy (They'd need to tune them in a more reasonable manner that assumes you're not wearing any savage loot yet, though). The biggest problem I had in the early weeks of Eden savage was people simply not pulling their weight in OS 1/2 and repeatedly hitting the enrages.

Was said streamer running an ultimate reclear when this happened? I wasn’t really paying attention

They were helping people get their first clears of Eden savage.

Honestly, if I knew someone good at the game was going out of their way to help me (I did actually get help with OS3 from one of said bored hardcore raiders back in Stormblood), the last thing i'd do is start mouthing off at them for offering constructive criticism (Which is what happened before the "victim" started getting roasted).

[DynnDiablos]

I have no interest in improving my performance, I play this game for fun. The only time I do an EX trial or Savage is simply for the clear. Those of you who treat it all like a job need to seriously examine your priorities and lighten up a bit. In the end, it's a game. Expecting players to be banned from using the Duty Finder because you don't want to end up with a casual player, well, that's how you roll on the dice. You never know what you're going to get and that is the way it is. It's the serious raiders and parsers who should be making their own party in PF if they want to be elitist and keep people out.

Some people, don't want to know every little detail of the fights. Hell, I've done fights and dungeons multiple times and my short term memory pretty much wipes once I've done it.

[Teros]

I have no interest in improving my performance, I play this game for fun. The only time I do an EX trial or Savage is simply for the clear. Those of you who treat it all like a job need to seriously examine your priorities and lighten up a bit. In the end, it's a game. Expecting players to be banned from using the Duty Finder because you don't want to end up with a casual player, well, that's how you roll on the dice. You never know what you're going to get and that is the way it is. It's the serious raiders and parsers who should be making their own party in PF if they want to be elitist and keep people out.

Some people, don't want to know every little detail of the fights. Hell, I've done fights and dungeons multiple times and my short term memory pretty much wipes once I've done it.

thank you for proving my point. casuals are so close minded and discriminatory about the subject. why is it okay for you to have "fun" in how you quantify it, but if it goes against what you want, it is wrong and should be bannable.

[tdb]

I have no interest in improving my performance, I play this game for fun. The only time I do an EX trial or Savage is simply for the clear. Those of you who treat it all like a job need to seriously examine your priorities and lighten up a bit. In the end, it's a game. Expecting players to be banned from using the Duty Finder because you don't want to end up with a casual player, well, that's how you roll on the dice. You never know what you're going to get and that is the way it is. It's the serious raiders and parsers who should be making their own party in PF if they want to be elitist and keep people out.

Some people, don't want to know every little detail of the fights. Hell, I've done fights and dungeons multiple times and my short term memory pretty much wipes once I've done it.

I hope you at least find groups that are okay with helping you out. If everyone agrees with it, all is fine. It's just the people who join a clear party without saying a word and then proceed to not pull their weight and maybe even blame others for it that are problematic.

[ForteNightshade]

I have no interest in improving my performance, I play this game for fun. The only time I do an EX trial or Savage is simply for the clear. Those of you who treat it all like a job need to seriously examine your priorities and lighten up a bit. In the end, it's a game. Expecting players to be banned from using the Duty Finder because you don't want to end up with a casual player, well, that's how you roll on the dice. You never know what you're going to get and that is the way it is. It's the serious raiders and parsers who should be making their own party in PF if they want to be elitist and keep people out.

Some people, don't want to know every little detail of the fights. Hell, I've done fights and dungeons multiple times and my short term memory pretty much wipes once I've done it.

And if you stayed out of Savage, there isn't much of an issue. Dungeons are brain dead content that barely require a pulse. When you venture into Savage with that attitude, your definition of fun may conflict with others, especially since your performance directly impacts the group's efficiency. If you couldn't care less to improve, and your damage reflects flippant demeanor. The remaining players have to compensate for it. Why is it okay for them to push out even more damage because you couldn't care less to improve yourself? If they shared the same attitude, you might not clear at all.

None of this is treating the game like a job, btw. Just because you fine optimization and improvement "work" doesn't mean others share your opinion. Speaking for myself, I find simply clearing Savage each week incredibly boring. What's the point of obtaining i470 gear unless I'm either aiming for better results and/or challenging Ultimate? But to each their own, I suppose.

[Kleeya]

None of this is treating the game like a job, btw.

A group of mean people constantly scrutinizing each other with some software program, and shitting on the ones who doesn't reach a given productivity threeshold which keep getting higher and higher, definitely looks like one of my past irl jobs though XD

Some rotations guide i did see also awfully looks like some automated factory production cycle, aiming at the best productivity threeshold as well.

When you are dealing with this kind of things at work all day, and even see some people becoming burn out by it, you just sometimes dont want to see more of it at home, when you are launching a game to relax yourself.

[ForteNightshade]

A group of mean people constantly scrutinizing each other with some software program, and shitting on the ones who doesn't reach a given productivity threeshold which keep getting higher and higher, definitely looks like one of my past irl jobs though XD

Some rotations guide i did see also awfully looks like some automated factory production cycle, aiming at the best productivity threeshold as well.

When you are dealing with this kind of things at work all day, and even see some people becoming burn out by it, you just sometimes dont want to see more of it at home, when you are launching a game to relax yourself.

You do realize people who care about optimization don't behave remotely as you've laid out, yes? At least not the vast majority. You're arguing in extremes.

Expecting people to understand a basic opener, AoE large pulls and deal respectable damage in higher end content is not "constantly scrutinizing". It's expecting a reasonable degree of competency. A lot of people throwing around the "I just wanna relax" type arguments use it as an excuse to essentially do the barest of minimums. I'm sorry, but a Samurai or Black Mage pulling 8,000 in E1S isn't "relaxing," they're downright griefing. If it's in a learning party, okay. They're hopefully going to improve once they learn mechanics but you'll see this in weekly clears. That's when it isn't okay. You've now forced everyone else to compensate for your unwillingness to give a damn, thus making it less fun for them all because you don't care. So... why should they care about you?

When it comes to dungeons, people really don't care. I'm not going to say much of anything because dungeons are brain dead. That being said, I do think you're being selfish if you can't be bothered to AoE, or deal any damage as a healer.