Parsing? Drama? ToS? Solution!

[Rilifane]

Lag? Hardware?
Lag has nothing to do with hardware, it amazes me most the ammount of likes you have showing how misinformed people are.
Here I am, Ryzen 5 3600 + 5700 XT and I have lag.
Why? Because I live in Argentina, Buenos Aires. I have the best internet provider with Fiber Optic and I still have a ping of over 300ms. Nothing will fix that.
What are you going to do? Kick me out from playing and enjoying the game just because I won't function as you decided I will? I can still do mechanics my own way, I have to dodge stuff 2 seconds into the future but somehow I manage after training.

Woah, chill...
One might think I just insulted your whole bloodline, sheesh.

True to an extend, though "lags" as an excuse gets thrown around so casually whenever something goes wrong and even for issues that have nothing to do with connection. And just for the record, poor hardware can, at the very least, contribute to lags or cause freezes. Different issue but the result is the same for the player: they see and react to mechanics later than others - usually too late.

Whatever it is that keeps you from performing decently doesn't matter. Wether it's lags, hardware, hamster on your keyboard, finger in your nose... it doesn't matter. If you are, for whatever reason, not able to perform decently enough for the content you're tackling, you shouldn't go in there. Knowing about issues and still going into raids without informing others of the issues and asking if they're cool with it is asshole behaviour.
If you can play the mechanics correctly with lags, good on you and welcome to the team. Care to remind me where exactly I said that you can't join even if you CAN play every mechanic correctly?
But if you can't play decently then your fun and enjoying the game isn't more important than that of 7 other people. And I'd like to see you convince me otherwise.

And I love how you try to twist it around so it makes me look like an egoistic elitist who would exclude you out of pure spite when it's a simple fact that many boss mechanics require precise positioning and timing and messing them up doesn't just kill you but probably the rest of the raid aswell.
This isn't about what I think you should do. This is about the content requiring a certain reaction time and gameplay to successfully complete. And "B-b-buut... my pc/ connection is bad! I can't help it Q.Q" isn't going to change that. The boss doesn't care about why someone couldn't make it in time. The result for the raid remains the same. If it's not a recurring thing, no worries.
But I had plenty of people in my parties who only cared to mention that they're playing on a potatoe pc after several wipes they caused by not being able to move their butt in time. THIS is egoistic. Not expecting decent hardware/ connection OR the ability to deal with it accordingly and decent gameplay.

[purgatori]

Edit: I should also note that "having fun" means different things for different people. For me fun is overcoming challenges, improving myself, and being useful to others. Making mistakes feels bad, so I naturally try to avoid them. For the lower end of casual players fun might be getting cheap laughs from whatever, so when confronted for their mistakes they use "having fun" as an excuse. It's not wrong to have fun, but it's prudent to be aware of what kind of impression the phrase gives to others on video game forums.

Why should someone using an innocuous word like 'fun' in a game that's predicated on being fun have to manage the knee-jerk reactions of elitists who assume that if you're a casual player in favour of having fun, then you must be a frivolous nitwit who can't be bothered mashing more than a couple of buttons/keys on their gamepad/keyboard (oops, it's probably not 'prudent' to admit to using a filthy casual controller either)?

This is something in Dungeons, EX trials, Savage, it's so common place now that it's sad. So again I don't see why it's fair for people in content that's meant to be a challenge to have to regularly see people not pulling their weight, say *I play games to have fun* and be the first ones who bitch about not being able to do savage yet have literally the rest of this game dumbed down for the sake of their inability to put together 2 braincells.

So, if you're only doing "the rest of the game," it's because of your "inability to put together 2 braincells"? Classy. Ever consider that it might be because those people are using some portion of their braincells for things other than gaming? Oh wait, I think I can predict what your response might be:



Close?

[tdb]

Why should someone using an innocuous word like 'fun' in a game that's predicated on being fun have to manage the knee-jerk reactions of elitists who assume that if you're a casual player in favour of having fun, then you must be a frivolous nitwit who can't be bothered mashing more than a couple of buttons/keys on their gamepad/keyboard (oops, it's probably not 'prudent' to admit to using a filthy casual controller either)?

Because, unfortunately, a certain group of people has used the expression to justify their boneheadedness often enough that it's become associated with the group.

Did you know that the swastika used to be a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness until a certain racist group appropriated it as their symbol? These days that group of people is the first association from the symbol for a large number of people.

The word "nigger" was a neutral term for dark-skinned people for about two centuries, until derogatory usage appeared in the late 1700s. Now it's been ranked in polls as the most offensive word in the English language.

A couple years ago a bunch of internet users attempted to get the OK hand sign recognized as a symbol for white supremacy and achieved a limited success. It is not yet universally recognized as such, but given how these things go, I wouldn't be surprised if it will be in 10 or 20 years.

As you can see, innocuous words and symbols have been given negative associations in the past, and there's no sign that this practice would abate anytime soon. I think it's good to fight it and try to restore their neutral or positive status, but if you are not aware of the negatives you may inadvertently associate yourself incorrectly.

Edit: On the other hand, I have not seen overt negativity aimed at console or controller players. A few weeks ago there was a thread where a console player asked for tips in transitioning to PC, and several people suggested using a controller so they can continue using the more familiar control scheme. I think I perform a little better with keyboard and mouse, but I've played MMORPGs on PC for 15 years so that's the familiar control scheme for me.

[Hyrist]

They created two easier modes for solo instanced duty in MSQ. There is a possibility that you and the devs are on opposite trajectories in terms of where you want this game to go in this case.

I noticed that, going through the Heavensward MSQ on replay mode.

But I'm more or less discussing from the intended goal of the thread, rather than simply taking a singular stance. My personal playstyle is flexible enough for me to be accepting of whatever changes are implemented - barring any tolerance of treating strangers poorly.

Ultimately, SE makes the decisions, we can only provide our feedback. After that point I advise everyone take a breath, cool off, and get back to the things they enjoy. Otherwise it's not worth it. Getting too involved with people too hot under the collar in gaming has ruined the game itself more than once in my time. So I'm happy to just let people do their thing and focus more on myself.

[Angus-Beef]

Why should someone using an innocuous word like 'fun' in a game that's predicated on being fun have to manage the knee-jerk reactions of elitists who assume that if you're a casual player in favour of having fun, then you must be a frivolous nitwit who can't be bothered mashing more than a couple of buttons/keys on their gamepad/keyboard (oops, it's probably not 'prudent' to admit to using a filthy casual controller either)?



So, if you're only doing "the rest of the game," it's because of your "inability to put together 2 braincells"? Classy. Ever consider that it might be because those people are using some portion of their braincells for things other than gaming? Oh wait, I think I can predict what your response might be:



Close?

It's funny, I raid with people who have families and are busy with work regularly, yet they're competent enough to actively raid and clear.

Edit: In fact its funny you assume all these things about where I stand but I simply say, if you dont want to put the effort forward dont involve yourself within EX and Savage runs. In the end if you can't put two brain cells together for the run you've joined then you're part of the problem, if you treat people like shit for needing to improve you're part of the problem. I dont care if people are casual, but pull your weight within this optional content. Dont get mad if people kick you for not doing so, dont act like people are being elitist. Just realize if people are kicking you and you can't clear, its a you problem no one else and people dont have to deal with it.

That being said I'll get back on Point. IS there a solution to people improving? Sadly even if we were to have guildhests be used as a means to teach Yoshi P said he doesnt want to deal with that system anymore, and any long term solution will have to be implemented in 6.X given that all of the prescheduled aspects of 5.X are essentially done and accounted for already.

Also who bombs on controller players in 2020? I know people who play on Keyboard and who are amazing, in vice versa, stop reaching and just admit people need to improve if they want to see the content they can't do.

[Barraind]

I raided with someone who had two kids she couldnt parent for the life of her and had to be removed because her damage was even worse than her non-stop yelling at her kids and eating vuln stacks.

And yet, nothing was ever her fault.

[EaMett]

In a game meant to be played over extended periods of time it's possible for everyone to get competent rotationally. Barring some high ping issues (and even then) it's also possible for everyone to become mechanically competent. The thing is some people just don't find it fun, that's all there is to it. It can be because of anxiety over performing well, lack of interest in higher content, etc..

The issues are generally twofold.

On the parser end, so long as SE keeps delivering content that requires optimization, people will need tools to gauge their performance. Thus parsers are almost a necessity for the portion of players gunning for that content whether directly or indirectly via fflogs. This is why SE bans the behavior not the parser.

On the player end, SE refusing to put them in game also leads people to attempt said content without qualifying skill. Either because they think it's irrelevant or don't know how well/poorly they perform. Needless to say this frustrates some.

Cue the endless parser threads in general forums.

The grey area is that you can difficultly justify helping others in the current climate. What are you going to say? mentioning your parser in an attempt to improve someone else's gameplay is risky business. I know I wouldn't even think about it, especially considering I've only ever been polite while helping others and the majority of time people tell me to outright f off. Would help if some system were put into place to help. I think SE should grade your DPS (death ratio, etc..) performance at the end of most content. A to F compared to what other players have done in the content. Top 15% > A, bottom 10% > F etc. This would be displayed only to the player and nobody else. People can seek help on their own schedule and they don't run the risk of being harassed by others

[purgatori]

Because, unfortunately, a certain group of people has used the expression to justify their boneheadedness often enough that it's become associated with the group.

Yeah, I'm just not convinced that it's an association rather than an assumption. Why? Because too much of the 'logic' on the part of elitists in this thread alone bespeaks binary thinking: you're either hardcore and serious about gitting gud enough for raiding, or you're one of those fun-loving casuals without so much as a scintilla of competence. Which brings me to...

Edit: In fact its funny you assume all these things about where I stand but I simply say, if you dont want to put the effort forward dont involve yourself within EX and Savage runs. In the end if you can't put two brain cells together for the run you've joined then you're part of the problem, if you treat people like shit for needing to improve you're part of the problem. I dont care if people are casual, but pull your weight within this optional content. Dont get mad if people kick you for not doing so, dont act like people are being elitist. Just realize if people are kicking you and you can't clear, its a you problem no one else and people dont have to deal with it.

I'm not making an assumption about where you stand. What I, and a number of other casuals do say is that a) we're not good enough to tackle Savage and Ex content, and b) are not willing to expend the time and effort on getting good enough to do so. Your clear implicature was that players such as us "can't put two braincells together," and that it's our fault that the rest of the content in the game has been dumbed down to suit. So it is you, as it turns out, who is making an unwarranted and uncharitable assumption here; it be like me assuming that all raiders are no-lifers suffering from monomania—but I don't, because I don't need to reduce groups to stereotypes in order to construct an argument.

As for negativity being aimed at controller players: I haven't seen a lot in FFXIV either, other than the odd taunting remark over FC chat that was meant in jest in any case. However, I inserted that aside because PC Master Race types (another brand of elitist) really do 'bomb' on controller/console players. Ever seen the Mackscorner/Worth a Buy channel? He's a moderately popular YouTuber who regularly attributes the decline of this or that franchise to 'consolisation,' blames simplistic combat on the developers having 'run out of buttons,' (apparently he's never heard of FFXIV), and implies that if a game has been streamlined or dumbed down then it is due to catering to a console audience (who, by way of implication are, you know, dumb). On that last point in particular, you maybe able to infer why I included that aside.

[SturmChurro]

...

Woah.. woah.. WOAH! I was just scrolling through this thread and had to take a double take at this post.

[Angus-Beef]

I'm not making an assumption about where you stand. What I, and a number of other casuals do say is that a) we're not good enough to tackle Savage and Ex content, and b) are not willing to expend the time and effort on getting good enough to do so. Your clear implicature was that players such as us "can't put two braincells together," and that it's our fault that the rest of the content in the game has been dumbed down to suit. So it is you, as it turns out, who is making an unwarranted and uncharitable assumption here; it be like me assuming that all raiders are no-lifers suffering from monomania—but I don't, because I don't need to reduce groups to stereotypes in order to construct an argument.

You literally are missing the point.

If YOU are the casual who doesnt so Savage/Ex Then my statement Does NOT pertain to you. I'm specifically talking about the people who GO into Savage/EX Runs and DO NOT want to improve and then complain about being kicked, not clearing, and Content being too hard. And trust me when I say there are plenty of people who go into BOTH these forms of optional content and need to learn how to take criticism and improve.

I think the people who simply enjoy the game are fine, I'm happy we have such a diverse playerbase, I'm happy there are people who find so much fun outside raiding and that FF offers them so much. But when there are people who think its ok to not realize that the optional content requires some form of optimization. Its not Elitist to ask people to be able to perform the bare minimum or to be willing to take help, but instead the minute you ask they get shitty. So while its not *every* casual players fault, there are people who think its ok to complain about hard content but not learn what you're doing wrong.

So again IF YOU are not the type of person in question, THEN this does not pertain to you.