Parsing? Drama? ToS? Solution!

[tdb]

3. We have to keep in mind the expected participation limits when adding this content. Are we expecting to sacrifice potentially 95% of the player base enjoying another piece of casual content for 5%? Is that a wise decision for a company that's already showing strains of development time and manpower to make?

You might be overestimating the tradeoff here. Savage/extreme content is based on normal content. They have to come up with new choreography for the fight and balance it, but that's about it. For another piece of casual content they'd have to make a new playfield, new boss model, potentially new minor enemy models, animate it, and come up with a story for it. I'd wager that for a single new trial you get an entire expansion's worth of savage raids and extreme trials. A single new alliance raid is probably more work than all savage and extreme content so far put together.

They're hopefully going to improve once they learn mechanics but you'll see this in weekly clears. That's when it isn't okay. You've now forced everyone else to compensate for your unwillingness to give a damn, thus making it less fun for them all because you don't care. So... why should they care about you?

This. Your right to have fun does not come at the expense of the seven other people in the group. If your inability to do the fight properly is holding up the entire group and you're not willing to improve, you should stick to easier content where you can be carried.

[Rilifane]

A group of mean people constantly scrutinizing each other with some software program, and shitting on the ones who doesn't reach a given productivity threeshold which keep getting higher and higher, definitely looks like one of my past irl jobs though XD

Some rotations guide i did see also awfully looks like some automated factory production cycle, aiming at the best productivity threeshold as well.

When you are dealing with this kind of things at work all day, and even see some people becoming burn out by it, you just sometimes dont want to see more of it at home, when you are launching a game to relax yourself.

First off, people refusing to keep someone who is underperforming to a degree that holds the seven other people back in their party isn't mean. It's fair. Seven other people would like to get the kill and pull their weight. One isn't. What do you propose is done instead?

Next, the "productivity treshhold" is getting higher further into a tier in most PF parties because
1) most people had plenty of time to collect gear and practice the fights
2) people are getting real tired of always having to cycle through several sloths who join farm parties while neither playing mechanics well nor having decent dps. Gating behind higher ilvl or even certain log color is the only to somewhat filter the people who join. You sometimes spent a full evening just wiping with one farm party after another while not seeing a single clear because there are always a couple of people who just want to have fun and refuse to put forth some effort because it's a game and not a job and whatnot.
There are still practice parties, mind you. You can still start with the raid tier even now and find enough people who'll also give it a go and learn with you.

And of course rotation guides are about "productivity", namely high dps because after a set a amount of time that boss in front of you is going to wipe the entire raid without a care for your or anyone else's fun. Push your buttons in a way that's most fun for you, only push the buttons that look prettiest to you if you want, relax all you want but if you enter ex or savage, you will need to bring a certain level of gameplay that includes a decent opener, general understanding of your rotation and being able to mostly stick to it while mechanics happen, being able to maintain uptime through most mechanics (some things like turning away earlier than needed from gaze attacks are completely fine) and playing the mechanics correctly once you learned them.
This isn't some unrealistically high expectation, that's what you need to pull your weight and not wipe the raid.

And when it comes to dungeons... nobody cares.
You'd have to play absolutely atrocious to get approached, let alone kicked. Things like single target rotation in aoe pulls as a tank, constantly letting people die from unavoidable damage as a healer or frequently standing around as a dps. As if anyone would look up your parses for a dungeon that's over in no time anyway.

[EaMett]

They were helping people get their first clears of Eden savage.

Honestly, if I knew someone good at the game was going out of their way to help me (I did actually get help with OS3 from one of said bored hardcore raiders back in Stormblood), the last thing i'd do is start mouthing off at them for offering constructive criticism (Which is what happened before the "victim" started getting roasted).

Oh did the player mouth off at the streamer for giving constructive criticism? I didn’t know that. Doesn’t justify the roasting but damn

[Teros]

wish I could get a clip of it (I would love to confirm), the friends I know that watched the stream have said the the "victim" was very closed off to constructive suggestions and became toxic in game, while the streamer vented about it only on twitch, but somehow that was against the tos and he was suspended.

[Jimmymagic]

So OP is on to something here. I really want to do Ex and Savage but the curve Is a huge leap from normal dungeons to hard to extreme.

Recently did coil synced huge and had some trying times to clear but overall learned a lot. I cant wait to get to Savage Alex. I agree the game could do a better job prepping for hardcore content which to me should be the goal if your serious about improving gameplay with others.

I have taken plenty of criticism, some of it was just different play styles but a majority was very useful in knowing how to drop cool downs, anticipating tank busters, positioning for incoming AoEs, etc.. And though I don't want to purposely waste anyones time there is currently no way around that except for practice run pf which for veterans is not really appealing if they have static. What s the incentive to help?

Op is offering some kinda solution maybe people would stop being so close minded, you can see that its a viable idea. I like playing for fun while improving performance. What the hell is wrong with that?

[Wolwosh]

I never call people out and i'm by no means an amazing player, but its a bit frustrating to out dps a dps as an Ast sometimes in fights like Hades Ex

[Angus-Beef]

I have no interest in improving my performance, I play this game for fun. The only time I do an EX trial or Savage is simply for the clear. Those of you who treat it all like a job need to seriously examine your priorities and lighten up a bit. In the end, it's a game. Expecting players to be banned from using the Duty Finder because you don't want to end up with a casual player, well, that's how you roll on the dice. You never know what you're going to get and that is the way it is. It's the serious raiders and parsers who should be making their own party in PF if they want to be elitist and keep people out.

Some people, don't want to know every little detail of the fights. Hell, I've done fights and dungeons multiple times and my short term memory pretty much wipes once I've done it.

See this mentality is why we have issues like this in the first place.

If you have fun that way fine, but don't see it as wrong for others to not want to deal with someone who's brain dead in df every roulette.

[LaylaTsarra]

See this mentality is why we have issues like this in the first place.

If you have fun that way fine, but don't see it as wrong for others to not want to deal with someone who's brain dead in df every roulette.

I rarely run into braindead people in roulettes that I do and I do a ton of them with the many alts that I have. People running with parsers open all the time need to understand that there is a large segment of the community who could give a hoot about them and yes they play this game for fun.

I can certainly understand the need for them in Savage and even to an extent for extreme primals but they certainly aren't needed for casual play and the braindead meme on this forum gets pretty old.

[Hash_Browns]

I rarely run into braindead people in roulettes that I do and I do a ton of them with the many alts that I have. People running with parsers open all the time need to understand that there is a large segment of the community who could give a hoot about them and yes they play this game for fun.

I can certainly understand the need for them in Savage and even to an extent for extreme primals but they certainly aren't needed for casual play and the braindead meme on this forum gets pretty old.

Ahh, I see we're going this route.

[purgatori]

Ahh, I see we're going this route.

And how is using parsers to optimise your output for the top-tier play analogous to the analogy contained in your meme, which relates to knowing the basic rules of the game? You can know the rules of chess without knowing all the grandmaster strategies. Don't conflate the two just because you like dunking on filthy casuals.