So, they fix 2B's tights due to community feedback...

[Alleo]

If that's the reason then it's as absurd as it is horribly boring. Preventing ugly characters? Especially with as ugly as some of the armor in this game is?

Good Lord, what I wouldn't give to not need to jump through hoops to make a fem Miqo or Au Ra who looks *mature* let alone ugly. So many of the combinations you can get to are so pretty and soft and round and girlish (I'm not even sure how else to put it) that it's actually kind of irritating. Viera are the closest I've been able to get to something that matches what I want, but they're so limited I couldn't bring myself to keep playing one.

Yeah sadly. The only way my character looks even a bit more adult is thanks to giving her the more pissed of looking face. (Thankfully it also had the horns that I liked too..) They could give us ways to make our character more "ugly" by increasing the amount of scars one can choose. They would still look pretty in the way their bodies are built but at least one could see that this is an adventurer that has been through a lot.

Heck "ugly" is something quite subjective too. I for example find it quite ugly to use a huge amount of make-up on the character because it often tends to look more clown like. Or one of the male Au Ra faces..I find it ugly, while another might see it as beautiful.

[Theodric]

Well, more scars and tattoos have been common requests for years - along with additional facial hair options for male characters. Adding them shouldn't be too hard - a solid compromise exists in the form of just making them be glamour items that show up on the model when projected onto a specific item. They've already shown that they're able to alter the character models themselves with 2B's outfit and before that...Minfilia's outfit.

It's just odd in general to see how some things in this game have been designed. There's no visible nipples for male characters when they're shirtless, for instance - though Jecht in FFX, Snow in FFXIII and Gladio in FFXV do not suffer from that problem so it's definitely something isolated to FFXIV.

[Lauront]

The absolut best part is BLM does so much dmg

Although I agree with a lot of your points, I think this one by itself is a bit misleading. Damage is all BLM brings to the table. Even so, but a cursory view of dps rankings will show SMN and SAM both pull ahead - you can see similar with Hades, where those three are again neck to neck. BLM can parse higher than SMN, assuming you're very good at it, but it should not be unexpected for it to be amongst the highest parsing jobs. The anomaly in that trio is not BLM or SAM. They've also done a pretty good job reworking NIN and SMN, IMO, and DRG and SAM saw nothing but improvements this expansion. The poor treatment they gave AST, and RDM's flagging performance are the only real issues I have with the job balance, atm.

Well, more scars and tattoos have been common requests for years - along with additional facial hair options for male characters. Adding them shouldn't be too hard - a solid compromise exists in the form of just making them be glamour items that show up on the model when projected onto a specific item. They've already shown that they're able to alter the character models themselves with 2B's outfit and before that...Minfilia's outfit.

It's just odd in general to see how some things in this game have been designed. There's no visible nipples for male characters when they're shirtless, for instance - though Jecht in FFX, Snow in FFXIII and Gladio in FFXV do not suffer from that problem so it's definitely something isolated to FFXIV.

Their design ambitions leave much to be desired, to be honest.

[Banriikku]

Although I agree with a lot of your points, I think this one by itself is a bit misleading. Damage is all BLM brings to the table.(snip)

My wording was poor, sorry for that but my point was and is not the damage.

Its the fluid gameplay and the mechanics of the class and BLM is the most easy to learn hard to master classes ingame. It took me a couple of hours to play the BLM so good that i could take part in a Extrem run without beeing a burden. I took me a very loong time to be good enough as a SMN to do the same. And here is the funny part i dislike the BLM and like SMN a lot. The BLM has a clear identity and easy to learn basicgameplay.

I see BLM gameplay and can feel it (i dont know how to discribe it better, Sorry), when i see SMN or Astro or even play them myself i cant see nor feel it. Their identity is not there and it takes way more work to get them going in comparsion to the BLM.

Why is the BLM so much better gameplay wise?
Everything i do as a SMN/AST feels like working around some unnecessary and tedious mechanics that only are there to limit and slow the player down. Every Patch they touch SMN/AST i have the feeling both classes are loosing more and more identity. Both classes also loosing gameplay wise every patch. Why is that? Why is every feedback related to AST/SMN considered a attack on SE/Yoshida? I dont talk about those angry/toxcic ppl - just the feedback that some changes are just not good or even bad.

[Lauront]

Yeah, I think I understand what you're getting at now. SMN has, in my view, long suffered from an identity crisis, in that it doesn't play like I'd expect a SMN too, and it's not really a DOT mage, either. The egis have lots of bizarre workings under the hood, which make it far from obvious how you're meant to play it if you don't consult a guide. I do think, however, that they're moving it closer to the right direction by focusing more on the trances and demi Egis. Ultimately, I'd like to see them phase out the "pets" and integrate them into all the core abilities and animations. Another problem they had, IMO, was how restrictive the job lore for SMN was, boxing it into a specific style, but they're making moves now to "liberate" it a bit. Their design logic ultimately constrained the job. I do think it's moving in the right direction and I hope that with fewer resources required for maintaining just 1 dungeon per patch, more will flow in the direction of improving the existing jobs for 6.0. For several jobs in 5.0, the changes they brought in could be traced back to community feedback, although the implementation differed in its specifics... some times for better or worse.

As for BLM, I main it, and enjoy it, but my concern is that although it feels great now, it will eventually grow stale, if they become afraid to find new ways to experiment and add onto its existing style. If you think about it, Despair is just what Flare used to do, and Xeno is just an instant Foul. They fit well into its toolkit but they're very conservative additions. Some people may be okay with it but eventually I'd like to see some new gameplay quirk, like Enochian was in HW.

AST is usually the healer I level first but I was disappointed to see how many core aspects to its identity, like its time spells, were vanished.

Anyway, I suppose this is better suited to another topic so I'll leave it at that.

[MOZZYSTAR]

Just to clarify, the original post isn't about everything we've asked for over the course of years - like expanding on character customisation. The original post is purely about classes because we didn't ask them to "fix" (i.e. homogenise) our classes and there's been months and pages worth of feedback on the classes since 5.0 was released. Personally, I highly doubt they threw out their past work in relation to the classes (like AST's cards) over night upon 5.0's release and so I wouldn't be surprised if they could just "revert" back to the original with some tweaks like they were just able to revert the butt back to its original state. The butt fix and adding character creation custmisation are totally different because one is just reverting to a previous version (the tights) while the other is totally overhauling an entire system + adding in new elements (character creation).


So, while I appreciate everyone going on about all the things the community (or they personally) has ever wanted yet was ignored for years, some of those things are just too disproportional to the butt fix to compare. (That being said, I also appreciate that they dug themselves in such a hole with the classes that it would be time consuming to revert back to, but it's still mostly reverting back to their previous states.)

[Bright-Flower]

Just to clarify, the original post isn't about everything we've asked for over the course of years - like expanding on character customisation. The original post is purely about classes because we didn't ask them to "fix" (i.e. homogenise) our classes and there's been months and pages worth of feedback on the classes since 5.0 was released. Personally, I highly doubt they threw out their past work in relation to the classes (like AST's cards) over night upon 5.0's release and so I wouldn't be surprised if they could just "revert" back to the original with some tweaks like they were just able to revert the butt back to its original state. The butt fix and adding character creation custmisation are totally different because one is just reverting to a previous version (the tights) while the other is totally overhauling an entire system + adding in new elements (character creation).


So, while I appreciate everyone going on about all the things the community (or they personally) has ever wanted yet was ignored for years, some of those things are just too disproportional to the butt fix to compare. (That being said, I also appreciate that they dug themselves in such a hole with the classes that it would be time consuming to revert back to, but it's still mostly reverting back to their previous states.)

Sure they 'could' put the old card system back in place. But while some people prefer the old system some people like the new one more. And swapping the card systems back might also mean needing a balancing pass for AST as well in the new context of SHB and all the healer changes. It affects gameplay and not just aesthetics, and would annoy the people that DO like the new system, or people who have gotten used to the system/started with the new system now having to get used to the old one etc. It's not as simple a thing to do as fixing a display issue with the 2Butt outfit.

[Halivel]

Just to clarify, the original post isn't about everything we've asked for over the course of years - like expanding on character customisation. The original post is purely about classes because we didn't ask them to "fix" (i.e. homogenise) our classes and there's been months and pages worth of feedback on the classes since 5.0 was released. Personally, I highly doubt they threw out their past work in relation to the classes (like AST's cards) over night upon 5.0's release and so I wouldn't be surprised if they could just "revert" back to the original with some tweaks like they were just able to revert the butt back to its original state. The butt fix and adding character creation custmisation are totally different because one is just reverting to a previous version (the tights) while the other is totally overhauling an entire system + adding in new elements (character creation).


So, while I appreciate everyone going on about all the things the community (or they personally) has ever wanted yet was ignored for years, some of those things are just too disproportional to the butt fix to compare. (That being said, I also appreciate that they dug themselves in such a hole with the classes that it would be time consuming to revert back to, but it's still mostly reverting back to their previous states.)

People should realise one thing: changing the job and cosmetic item is principally different work.

What affects change in glamour item? Nothing except how this item look.

What affects potential revert of AST to pre-5.0 state (since you speak about "revert button")? 14 jobs in 5.0 state aren't balanced for pre-5.0 state so they either need being reworked or reverted as well to keep the balance. GNB and DNC aren't balanced for pre-5.0 jobs, so they either need being reworked or removed to keep the balance. Every 5.0 battle need to be rebalanced for reverted or reworked jobs too. Simply speaking: with asking for AST revert people ask for a job they normally do for new expansions, not for patches.
When they adressed NIN issues, they changed one job with keeping in mind recent state of others because it was UP even next to range DPS jobs. They could do something like this AST maybe, but is there an actual need for this except the fact there are people that are unhappy about how new skills work in comparison to SB, when there are also people who are completely fine with recent state of the job? And while reworking is possible, reverting? Pretty much not because it leads to too much problems.

[Banriikku]

People should realise one thing: changing the job and cosmetic item is principally different work. (snip)

Hmm okay - here is my view - SE reacts to an Item with no Impact on the game itself but things that matter are getting no respond. Thats my problem here. It takes time to change a class? Sure i know that and respect it but stuff that dont matter gets attention and the important stuff gets nothing ?

There is my problem not that it takes time and money to change important stuff.

We dont get anything, not even a hint. But hey we got our bubble butt back.

[Halivel]

Hmm okay - here is my view - SE reacts to an Item with no Impact on the game itself but things that matter are getting no respond. Thats my problem here. It takes time to change a class? Sure i know that and respect it but stuff that dont matter gets attention and the important stuff gets nothing ?

There is my problem not that it takes time and money to change important stuff.

We dont get anything, not even a hint. But hey we got our bubble butt back.

I mean if they will rework it significantly - it will happen only in next expansion most likely, same as most others huge reworks. If they will explicitly say they will change the class people will bombard them with question "when? when? WHEN? What do you mean later? We want NOW!" even more than they do now. It doesn't mean that feedback about class problems isn't valid - it is, and should be written. But 100th post "when you will say something about this" doesn't rise the chance that they will actually say anything. Write the post with your remarks about what you don't like, make for it new thread or exsiting one, discuss issue with other users and that's it.