Does WoW have a faster pace than FFXIV?

[linay]

Ok then play FF to have your fun. What you find annoying is an opinion and is ultimately subjective to the fact that the whole of both games have pros and cons to what make them fun or not for those playing.

Indeed, which is why people who find WoW's fights more fun have WoW to play with and I'd appreciate it if FFXIV would not copy WoW too much and stick to its own combat design.

[Angus-Beef]

Thats ultimately up to what needs to be changed for the game going forward. If this game suddenly became less learn this dance and more if u can dodge a wrench you can dodge this mechanic it wouldnt hurt it, it would just require people to adjust. But who am I to talk about how games become stagnant.

If anything at least introduce higher difficulty dungeons that lean away from dance dance dance all the time.

[KalinOrthos]

Ok then play FF to have your fun. What you find annoying is an opinion and is ultimately subjective to the fact that the whole of both games have pros and cons to what make them fun or not for those playing.

This is what most of us are saying, outside of the clear attacking of others. We're saying that the slower GCDs of FFXIV are balanced by the encounter design taking advantage of those downtime windows with each fight having a myriad mechanics to keep track of, even if it is scripted as far as timing. Conversely, WoWs encounters follow simpler designs overall, but is compensated with a much faster GCD and anicanceling, letting players focus on personal performance by keeling that GCD turning. The two play wildly different, but in the context of encounters, it really comes down to personal feel. Personally, as much as I loved the tanking in WoW, the encounter design in this game keeps me hooked.

[Angus-Beef]

This is what most of us are saying, outside of the clear attacking of others. We're saying that the slower GCDs of FFXIV are balanced by the encounter design taking advantage of those downtime windows with each fight having a myriad mechanics to keep track of, even if it is scripted as far as timing. Conversely, WoWs encounters follow simpler designs overall, but is compensated with a much faster GCD and anicanceling, letting players focus on personal performance by keeling that GCD turning. The two play wildly different, but in the context of encounters, it really comes down to personal feel. Personally, as much as I loved the tanking in WoW, the encounter design in this game keeps me hooked.

I can agree, outside the memes and trolls and people who need to feel like FF is glorified, thats the biggets thing I tired to explain earlier in the thread. Its all down to what you enjoy personally. There are many fights in WoW i still love simply for how it felt to be within the encounter. But if the OP wants to dig further and try its up to them

[Nedkel]

If your stuff is buggy and stuttering then it's not the games problem. I never run into those issues on WoW even in massive firework shows on ultra.
And all of you guys, please. Lets not pretend the rotations for either game are more difficult than the other. You're still hitting the same button when it glows and throwing in a CD between.

As for OP, overall WoW is much faster pace. It takes me a long time to get back into FFXIV after I've been playing WoW for a while simply because of the drag of skill pacing.

The rotation and amount of skills differences is huge and plays the main part of the ffxiv combat advantages. Its somthing that you cant ignore if in ffxiv you are pressing like 16 different buttons and in wow you do like 8.
Wow combat and class design in majority is hot garbage, if you do anything else than rushing through dungeon you could play it with one hand.
It is faster but its not surprising since GCD is sitting at 1 sec so all specs should have over 60 apm which is not the case and a ton of them is sitting way below that. In ffxiv despite gcd being 2.5 sec jobs do 31+ apm the least.

[Omymy]

Wow combat and class design in majority is hot garbage, if you do anything else than rushing through dungeon you could play it with one hand.

Said by someone who doesn't even know how to make Windwalker monk opener.

Are you saying that while playing this game, i mean, you cant even lose aggro because the devs wanted to make it terribly casual. CCs are a joke, luckly you use one. Try to beat mythic+ and stop talking nonsense, please, make yourself a favor.

[Yamr3]

The rotation and amount of skills differences is huge and plays the main part of the ffxiv combat advantages. Its somthing that you cant ignore if in ffxiv you are pressing like 16 different buttons and in wow you do like 8.
Wow combat and class design in majority is hot garbage, if you do anything else than rushing through dungeon you could play it with one hand.
It is faster but its not surprising since GCD is sitting at 1 sec so all specs should have over 60 apm which is not the case and a ton of them is sitting way below that. In ffxiv despite gcd being 2.5 sec jobs do 31+ apm the least.

Good morning,

I am commenting here to show that it is quite far higher than that if you look at players who are above average. I've taken 2 logs to show the CPM. The first log below is form one of the top 100 guilds in the world. Please see below for the CPM from this top 100 guild. A third of the raiders CPM for first boss on Mythic The Eternal Palace are double the CPM, 2 almost triple, the actions per minute possible for FF14.




Now let's look at a more laid back guild. I will use mine for example. We're a hybrid guild and community of raiders. More so on the super casual side of raiding until we get to the half way point of Heroic difficulty of raids, as that's when things start to get real.




I post this to show that's it's not actually that far down on CPM. It's quite accurately double, and as shown here can be tripled, with the actions per minute. When you look at casual players and see the comparison it's not too vastly down either.

I picked the first boss because that's one you sit around and don't have to move too much. Kind of like how E2S is besides standing in a puddle every now and then or the tank / healer running to their A / C marker for flares.

[Cetonis]

A third of the raiders CPM for first boss on Mythic The Eternal Palace are double the CPM, 2 almost triple, the actions per minute possible for FF14.

Just a factual correction, FFXIV CPM tends to run from 30-50, with most jobs between 35-45. So there's definitely no triple, a couple near-doubles, and then a lot of just "more". So still faster as a CPM measure, just not by as insane of a degree as stated.

Digging a bit more fwiw, looking over some of these logs I'd say that ~90% of the players over 60 cpm are spamming 3-5 skills for the bulk (~80% or more) of those actions. The other 20% can involve a myriad of different skills though.

[Yamr3]

Just a factual correction, FFXIV CPM tends to run from 30-50, with most jobs between 35-45. So there's definitely no triple, a couple near-doubles, and then a lot of just "more". So still faster as a CPM measure, just not by as insane of a degree as stated.

Digging a bit more fwiw, looking over some of these logs I'd say that ~90% of the players over 60 cpm are spamming 3-5 skills for the bulk (~80% or more) of those actions. The other 20% can involve a myriad of different skills though.

Since a recurring subtopic is button presses, let's look into it a little more. I decided to match the Shadow Priest casts with one of the top DPS for E2S. They're a Bard, so it's range and range. To prevent naming and shaming I will not quote the player's name but you can verify yourselves by looking through FFlogs.

This image here shows the Shadow Priest from the first boss in Mythic The Eternal Palace


This image below shows one of the bard I'm using as an example from E2S.


Both of those are range classes and not really a unique rotation to say. Not a vast difference until we look at time. In the Priest's log, they used 263 actions in 3 minutes vs. the bard using 396 in 9 minutes on E2S. If we took the same pacing of 263 buttons every 3 minutes while tripling the same boss's HP, the Priest would've done 789 buttons in 9 minutes. Which would match the Bard's kill time on E2S.

Both fights relatively don't have players moving very much besides a mechanic here and there requiring you to stack on someone moving the AoE out or standing on your soak marker in E2S and dodging the combo in the last phase.

If we look at this, the Priest was doing 90.5 CPM and the Bard is doing 46.6. We could go into the nitty gritty of which classes are spam classes but I believe that is a different category of issues, balance and game design over time. Neither side are wrong to play, which we all can agree on; however, for the above average player, WoW is considerably faster in CPM to FF14's CPM, even if it's 2 extra buttons. Which, CPM aside and only looking at rotations, is a personal flavor difference for each player themselves.

[Cetonis]

(snip)

Whew, that's quite the cherry pick. It's strange to both (a) pick something decidedly on the far high end of the WoW cpm scale, and then (b) pick Bard, of all things, to represent FFXIV. Why not MCH? That would have been a far better choice for multiple reasons (no procs to argue complexity about, no weird apm vs. cpm debate, not a button-count outlier, etc).

I don't broadly disagree with the points that you seem to want to make, but there's no need to distort and exaggerate. Good-faith arguments will do just fine.