BLM flow and instant Cast logic problems

[KalinOrthos]

Whenever I speak about the BLM ... there is always your kind of people...Barely play it - only lvled it - never even did like the class - AND BY GOD ...you are all masters of it when it comes to speaking about it ... I play BLM I am friend with many BLM and I watch a lot of people who actually play it Mainly ... and every time there is a new high-end raid or trial am left with the question how the hell am I gonna be useful running around most of the time (KEYWORD USEFUL)... A "TURRET" class has no place in the move around land that is high end.

and you will not see me stop playing it ... I love the BLM unlike you I want the class to be better and I can see CLEAR problems in it when it comes to high performance while for some reason YOU ALL see a perfect class that has NOT A SINGAL PROBLEM
nay the best Class in the game that can solo bosses all day .... while I after many hours of playing I see a lot of clunkiness in its design flaws in its spells mindless mechanics that need to be changed a LOT of little things the ruin the Class flow of the BLM
I understand ... a lot of you think adapting to a flowed design is some sort of mastery ... believe me, I reached that mastery and found it lacking no matter how good I am at the BLM in high-end this class will always be a liability is some way

I asked for a change in the Proc instant cast system nothing more ... even tho this class is lacking in a lot of other things and by god, you are all soo ANGRY with even me suggesting a change that would make the class better and more fun and would help with its flow ... I guess there is a stigma around BLM people see the damage and they get this feeling that this class deserves to be clunky as trade-off with dealing a lot of damage.

My, but you have an ego. Maybe learn some humility, then maybe you'll actually start getting better with the class you claim to be an expert on.

Also, good news! Level 72!

[juutalainen9]

Whenever I speak about the BLM ... there is always your kind of people...Barely play it - only lvled it - never even did like the class - AND BY GOD ... trial am left with the question how the hell am I gonna be useful running around most of the time (KEYWORD USEFUL)... A "TURRET" class has no place in the move around land that is high end.

blah blah blah.... while I after many hours of playing I see a lot of clunkiness in its design flaws in its spells mindless mechanics that need to be changed a LOT of little things the ruin the Class flow of the BLM
I understand ... a lot of you think adapting to a flowed design is some sort of mastery ... believe me, I reached that mastery and found it blah blah blah

I asked for a change in the Proc instant cast system nothing more ... even tho this class is lacking in a lot of other things and by god, you are all soo

er, im just gonna give you the benefit of doubt because im honestly not sure if you're trolling or not.
but anyways, you seem to be under the delusion that having to cast thunder at all is a loss compared to exclusively just focusing on f4, which is not the case. it's been mathed out that you should just use thunder like any other dot in the game, refreshing it as it's gonna fall off. however, with thundercloud procs in the mix, you don't wanna let those drop either so in fact: refresh thunder as the dot OR the thundercloud proc is about to fall off, and it will be a gain even if you have to "interrupt" your rotation.
that being said, thunder being instant just wouldn't work on a job like blm. you're locked to casting most of the time, its the whole idea of the job - you're locked to place a lot of the time but you have a simple rotation in exchange, and your optimization is mostly going to be fight-specific movement optimization. you can't just suddenly give blm a ton of oGCDs because we simply don't have the weave space for all of em. thundercloud procs should be a movement tool for you if anything. if you dont have anything else and you need to move, its ok to clip your thunder dot a bit too and use your proc early for movement. plus the gcd thunder puts you on will allow you to weave stuff in. i really don't understand your point on how it's a "flawed" design.

and believe me, reaching the 23rd percentile on voidwalker does not count as "reaching that mastery". and before you ask yes, i do actually main BLM and i have no issue with not being a liability, so i really don't understand where some of the comments you're making are coming from.

[Eloah]

I have a question. In the OPs opening statement he tried to showcase the actual "cost" of an instant cast by subtracting the GCD from the cast time. I think he did 2.6s - 2.31s getting a positive 0.29s. But isn't that the reverse of the logic. I would think you'd start with the GCD first and subtract the cast time. Because with the you'd get 2.31s - 2.6s = -0.29s indicating that you've wasted 0.29s before you can next attack, if the skill is hard casted. This works with all of the spells/skills that have cast times. Its recast - cast to show you how much time you gain or lose to use another skill OGCD or GCD.if I have an instant cast Fire spell that's basically 2.31s - 0s = 2.31s, giving me that time to use an oGCD skill in its place or move as needed.

[juutalainen9]

I have a question. In the OPs opening statement he tried to showcase the actual "cost" of an instant cast by subtracting the GCD from the cast time. I think he did 2.6s - 2.31s getting a positive 0.29s. But isn't that the reverse of the logic. I would think you'd start with the GCD first and subtract the cast time. Because with the you'd get 2.31s - 2.6s = -0.29s indicating that you've wasted 0.29s before you can next attack, if the skill is hard casted. This works with all of the spells/skills that have cast times. Its recast - cast to show you how much time you gain or lose to use another skill OGCD or GCD.if I have an instant cast Fire spell that's basically 2.31s - 0s = 2.31s, giving me that time to use an oGCD skill in its place or move as needed.

Yes. Though it doesn't matter which one you subtract from which as long as you understand what's going on. That's why triplecast for example is a gain and not just a movement tool, since the cast time in fire IV is longer than your GCD, making it instant you'll shave off the extra time needed for the cast. The OP did understand that logic though, what they're suggesting is making thundercloud actually instant, as in make it an oGCD that doesn't trigger the GCD at all.

[Ferrinus]

Back in early Heavensward I really wished that Thundercloud procs refreshed AF or maybe just added 3s to both your stance and Enochian timer or something so that it was never self-sabotage to use them. Nowadays, our timers and general job mechanics are generous enough that we can pretty much always fire off our procs without regretting it. It sounds like the OP just hasn’t learned good rules of thumb for proc use, so they’re getting frustrated at what appear to be conflicts between Thundercloud and Enochian.

Generally, DarkMagician, you’ll want to release your Thundercloud proc when either it or the enemy’s Thunder III DoT is about to run out. As long as your AF timer has like 6 seconds or more on it when you do this you should be able to follow up with either Fire or Despair and keep all your plates spinning. My favorite thing to do is to use Thundercloud or Firestarter when I have either 4400 or 4000 MP left, because I can activate Triplecast during the global cooldown and then cast F4, F4, Despair at instant speed and therefore a substantial time gain.

[Maero]

You have time on your timer for procs i think it is just a matter of your timing. I can see somewhat what you are saying though.
IDK blm flow is not the most natural among jobs, but is still far better then Nin i think, lol
While i have not played blm much at all in Shadowbringers, i had been a blm main for 4 years. (I main DNC in Shadow and did Red Mage more in Stormblood)
Others who have posted gave ideas

[GutsyBoozetank]

So, from what I understand is the TC has trouble reading. The tool tip says it makes the spell an instant cast and it does. No where in that tool tip or skill description does it say it makes the cooldown of said spell instant also. This all boils down to the topic creators failure to comprehend what he is reading.

[Shiroe]

truthfully if Blm "instant" casts were really instant (offGCD).., it would be cool..

just if tripple and procs were like that (keep SC and xeno on the GCD.., but take tripple and procs off the GCD)

Blm openers would have real burst again lol..

and maybe that slight buff is what blm is missing atm (aside if top parsing Blm in statics.., Blm 5.2 average is underwhelming atm)

[Kabooa]

No.

You're talking about shoving nearly 2,400 potency a minute into the job by putting procs and Triple affected spells off the GCD.

That's bloody absurd, and you're going to make the job feel worse at the same time.

Truly an amazing accomplishment to completely unbalance a job and make it terrible to play at the same time.

[Rilifane]

truthfully if Blm "instant" casts were really instant (offGCD).., it would be cool..

just if tripple and procs were like that (keep SC and xeno on the GCD.., but take tripple and procs off the GCD)

Blm openers would have real burst again lol..

and maybe that slight buff is what blm is missing atm (aside if top parsing Blm in statics.., Blm 5.2 average is underwhelming atm)

For god's sake. NO. Absolutely not.
It would fuck up the whole gameplay while at the same time making it completely unbalanced.

BLM has relatively few oGCDs and weaving windows in an optimized scenario as you hoard Polyglot stacks for raid buffs which leaves you with fastcasts (used for Sharpcast and Triple primarily), procs and instants from Triple and Swift. Making procs and triple convert hardcasts into oGCDs would leave you with fewer weaving windows while at the same time increasing your amount of oGCDs significantly. You are left with only 3 instants per minute but at least 5 more oGCDs on top of Triple, Swift, Leylines, Addle, AM/ BtW, Manafont, Manaward and Sharpcast. Pots also prefer to have their own little instant.
Not to mention a huge chunk of your mobility is out of the window.
You're asking for a clipping nightmare and insanely low mobilty.

Average BLM is underwhelming because it's not a progress-friendly class and needs a lot of optimization and decent planning to pull nice numbers. Until you're comfortably on optimized farm you're usually fighting for ever % of uptime and Leyline uptime because bosses constantly chase you across the platform.

BLM is in a fantastic spot right now. If played somewhat well it offers really good and well-deserved dps, the whole toolkit it well-balanced and thought through. It's a class that offers constantly high dps compared to heavily- burst focused classes like DNC and is great for utilizing buffs on short CDs like AST cards or Trick Attack.
It's imho one of the few classes right now which turned out well in every aspect.
The whole concept of a simple basic rotation for casual content with a lot of optimization potential for endgame works really well.

I hope they don't touch BLM. It's near perfect as it is.
My only mini-gripe is the awkward mana tick. One instant tick/ small MP reg tied to the AF3 -> UI3 switch would be nice but that's really all I could possibly wish for.