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[Angus-Beef]

Some of you aren't gonna stop til you finally get your casual free hardcore only utopia that you've been dreaming of.

Well keep waiting.

I mean raiders already have that, they just don't with casuals lol, not hard to make friends with other competent people and not run with a dps who doesn't dodge or a healer who's brain dead or a tank that doesn't know how to cycle cooldowns.

The fact that you think it's raiders who are only worrying about of they can be douches to people is sad. Casuals are just as toxic and talk just as much crap.

[Melichoir]

So what you are saying here, is that these so called hardcore raiders, who often claim to be so good at the game that everything is easy, aren't actually that good and have to cheat to win. Sounds about right.

Im skeptical you play with many raiders who clear all the tiers. Call out bots are useless if you dont know the fight or its mechanics. Most raiders can do these fights without that external help because they, you know, learn the fights.

The fact that you think it's raiders who are only worrying about of they can be douches to people is sad. Casuals are just as toxic and talk just as much crap.

In my experience, its usually casuals who end up being most toxic simply because they either think they know more than they do or believe that thins should cater to their play style. I see it far more often than not.

[Halivel]

In my experience, its usually casuals who end up being most toxic simply because they either think they know more than they do or believe that thins should cater to their play style. I see it far more often than not.

I suspect that the reason for that is mostly the fact that almost in every MMO game, including FF14 (and probably especially FF14) so called casuals make up from 80 to 95% of playerbase. The amount of toxic players in two categories is probably the same in terms of percentage in specific group, but when one of them highly outweighs another in population, you have higher chance to meet toxic people in a group that is bigger at least because non-toxic players are mostly just silent, you don't even notice them most of the time, while rotten apple is often right before your sight and makes you annoyed on top of that, so it just sticks to the memory.

[Melichoir]

I suspect that the reason for that is mostly the fact that almost in every MMO game, including FF14 (and probably especially FF14) so called casuals make up from 80 to 95% of playerbase. The amount of toxic players in two categories is probably the same in terms of percentage in specific group, but when one of them highly outweighs another in population, you have higher chance to meet toxic people in a group that is bigger at least because non-toxic players are mostly just silent, you don't even notice them most of the time, while rotten apple is often right before your sight and makes you annoyed on top of that, so it just sticks to the memory.

While this is true, I think the problem is perception vs reality. The trope is Raiders are all egotistical clowns who will berate adn belittle you for not knowing the smallest nuance in the game or not achieving their level of gameplay. That persistant trope is far from what I see and experience.

Its worth noting though that the toxic type I tend see most isnt the people who are easily offended, but the people who think theyre better than they are and get angry and beligerant towards other players that dont meet their perceived level of self skill and standards. These would be the type of players who go into e1s cause a wipe or two, then yell at other players to do better or to listen to their strat cause "it's better". It;s the people who rage quit after the 4th attempt on something, saying they dont have time for scrubs. The same people who when they get one clear think that they are the best and are above feedback or suggestions. Or react ultra negatively and talk trash when someone is trying to remain positive despite setbacks. It's this particular brand of toxicity that I see most.

Frankly, most players are pretty chill. New players will generally react positively to suggestions, veteran players tend to be pretty nice and like helping out other players. Its that middle ground that gets to be an issue. The group of people who want to be the hardcore raider but haven't yet learned to own up to their own shortcomings and improve; instead opting to blame other players or game mechanics.