Recent Developments of TOS Actions Taken

[Driavna]

The point of this whole matter keeps flying over the heads of a lot of people.

In a way, this topic has devolved to: "Parsers bad" and "Just don't be a jerk = Carry me". Any other implication or talking point is ignored.

[Bonbori]

This makes me very happy.

Someone misused a tool meant for self-improvement to harm another player, personally provided video evidence of obvious guilt, and was punished for it. It's beautifully common-sense.

[VenKitsune]

While i agree this was a risky line to cross for SE, i can see why they might want to. However, i really do urge Square enix to update and be more transparent about their rules regarding this - Are their GMs, or otherwise those that enforce the rules smart enough to realise what is and isnt good enough evidence?

What if someone posted on discord something that might violate the TOS, but said person changed their discord name and icon prior to mimic someone else, then posted that as evidence. Anyone can change their name on discord to another players name and change the icon to a picture of that characters face. Seems like an easy way to frame someone they dont like.

What basis does SE have that proves said non in-game evidence actually came from the accused party, and not someone acting under an assumed name? How can SE know that evidence may or may not be doctored?
It just sounds like a weapon for the easily offended to get a rush from revenge on someone they simply dont like - I've read some weird stuff online, some people even get offended by someone saying "Good morning" to them both in real life, forums, other games...

I really want to hear SE justify this, and their basis for how they KNEW the evidence was legit - How did they know the twitch streamer was actually the player and not just a "reaction video/stream", and how did they know how to link those social media accounts of the data miners to the SE accounts?
Its honestly kinda scary stuff - I get the age rating is 16, but with each time something like this happens, the sociability of the game goes down, people get more reserved for fear of being reported for something that to a normal person might be fine (eg "Awww nuts i died" then being reported because it reminded someone how their friend died to a nut allergy...or something silly like that, just thought that up on the spot but as i said earlier, some people are offended but the weirdest of things), the more this happens, the less people will talk ingame. SE needs to be more transparent how they deal with this kind of thing, we might not even be having this discussion if it was clear as day in their rules they could take evidence from 3rd party stuff, and how, but considering we're talking about it, its obviously not clear enough.

[Ryaz]

While i agree this was a risky line to cross for SE, i can see why they might want to. However, i really do urge Square enix to update and be more transparent about their rules regarding this - Are their GMs, or otherwise those that enforce the rules smart enough to realise what is and isnt good enough evidence?

What if someone posted on discord something that might violate the TOS, but said person changed their discord name and icon prior to mimic someone else, then posted that as evidence. Anyone can change their name on discord to another players name and change the icon to a picture of that characters face. Seems like an easy way to frame someone they dont like.

What basis does SE have that proves said non in-game evidence actually came from the accused party, and not someone acting under an assumed name? How can SE know that evidence may or may not be doctored?
It just sounds like a weapon for the easily offended to get a rush from revenge on someone they simply dont like - I've read some weird stuff online, some people even get offended by someone saying "Good morning" to them both in real life, forums, other games...

I really want to hear SE justify this, and their basis for how they KNEW the evidence was legit - How did they know the twitch streamer was actually the player and not just a "reaction video/stream", and how did they know how to link those social media accounts of the data miners to the SE accounts?
Its honestly kinda scary stuff - I get the age rating is 16, but with each time something like this happens, the sociability of the game goes down, people get more reserved for fear of being reported for something that to a normal person might be fine (eg "Awww nuts i died" then being reported because it reminded someone how their friend died to a nut allergy...or something silly like that, just thought that up on the spot but as i said earlier, some people are offended but the weirdest of things), the more this happens, the less people will talk ingame. SE needs to be more transparent how they deal with this kind of thing, we might not even be having this discussion if it was clear as day in their rules they could take evidence from 3rd party stuff, and how, but considering we're talking about it, its obviously not clear enough.

This was on a Twitch stream. SE doesn't take Discord stuff as evidence because it CAN be easily altered or faked. You can't fake a Twitch stream like that.

[VenKitsune]

This was on a Twitch stream. SE doesn't take Discord stuff as evidence because it CAN be easily altered or faked. You can't fake a Twitch stream like that.

Cant you?

What if said Streamer was streaming privately to friends, then said friend added in a fake 3rd party app overlay that broke TOS, then re-streamed it?

What evidence do you have that says, in plain text, that SE doesn't take stuff from discord or other forums? Where have they said this?

[Vnolan]

This has less to do with why a streamer was banned and more to do with the fact that SE deciding to extend their enforcement outside of the game itself has raised a grey area on what is/isn't punsihable.

If it's against the ToS and SE has proof that meets their standards, it's punishable.

From last month:
If SE's banning dataminers, can they finally go after RMT in PF?

There was also the nude mod thing earlier in the year.

I don't think it can be said with absolute certainty that the simple "Don't be a jerk" rule is going to protect someone that's doing something that's technically against the ToS like using a parser anymore.

Has anyone been suspended or banned for using a parser on stream?

If someone, say, kicks someone for doing low DPS, but doesn't state such in-game, nor do they actually say anything negative on stream, would they still be safe if the "victim" saw that they were using a parser to determine that they were underperforming and decided to remove them because of it?

Yes. You can already remove underperformers from your party without having to use a parser.

Are you not allowed to say anything offensive about someone on stream at all now?

It was never allowed.

If they are willing to enforce such things now, they should just come out and make a clear statement about it instead of having double standards and cherry-picking incidents. It's the lack of consistency that's the biggest issue overall.

The PF ads have been up for years and are visible to thousands of players in-game each day. They have not commented on that, so why would they comment on this? Lack of consistency will only become a problem if it can be proven they look the other way for some players or hold a grudge against others.

It's possible they only act in some instances based on the source of the evidence. If that's the case, they definitely won't say as much.

In a way, this topic has devolved to: "Parsers bad" and "Just don't be a jerk = Carry me". Any other implication or talking point is ignored.

There are only two:
1. Potential for improper suspension - Same hysteria was seen with the ToS revision and I haven't heard of anyone getting in trouble for providing advice without insulting. If a streamer getting in trouble for parse shaming on their stream blew up, imagine if someone received a suspension for asking someone to AoE or to use damaging spells.

2. SE needs to be consistent with their ToS enforcement - If there are no tangible downsides to it (loss of subs, money), why should they care? It's been business as usual for the past several years and they've had nothing but an increase in subs and good reviews. That's not going to change because they decided to enforce some rules here and there.

snip

You won't get any answers to that as it would let players know how to avoid detection. One reason why the STF has no interaction with the community.

[Ryaz]

Cant you?

What if said Streamer was streaming privately to friends, then said friend added in a fake 3rd party app overlay that broke TOS, then re-streamed it?

What evidence do you have that says, in plain text, that SE doesn't take stuff from discord or other forums? Where have they said this?

Read through the thread. People in here have mentioned that they've tried to report Discord stuff or screenshots and SE told them they can't take them as evidence because they're easily altered.

As for the fake overlay thing, it's still far harder to do something like that than doctoring a screen shot. The streamer wasnt even banned for the parser in the first place- he was banned because he raged on the player and posted it HIMSELF on HIS account publicly. Not some other account re-streaming it.

No one is saying to ban people indiscriminately, but it's far easier to verify if a stream is legit vs a discord account.

[RyuSaarva]

found a news article about this on oneangrygamer and man is the comment section hostile and toxic and everyone there agree that bad players must be mocked.

[Nedkel]

You should have a basic understanding of normal civil behaviour, the kind you would you use at a normal professional place.

Define the "normal civil behaviour" in the game that is not real life.
Is spamming one emote making angry someone is civil behaviour?

[HyoMinPark]

thanks SE <3

I hope they start banning everyone who uses parser

Troll post, I’m sure — but they’ll never do this. Their entire raid scene would die and they know it.

Arthars’ punishment is less about him using a parser and more about him using it to grief/harass/publicly shame a player. People seem to be conflating his ban with “oh, he used a third party tool and that’s why he was punished”. No, he publicly griefed and shamed another player—even if said player was griefing him first—and the parser just happened to be a tool he used. If he’d done it without a parser, he likely still would have been punished all the same.