Recent Developments of TOS Actions Taken

[MarniDawg]

Stating someone sucks at a game because they aren't performing as they should, even with colorful language in it is absolutely an opinion.

[MOZZYSTAR]

So, let's look at what he did.

- Talked a lot of crap about a player in his party
- Enlarged the parse screen
- Used special sound effects and animations to draw even more attention to the "bad player"
- Showed their name in the clear; no attempt to obfuscate their identity.

If we're now in an era where SE takes action on this kind of evidence (And really, SE is behind, because most other operators of online games already do), I'm perfectly OK with SE suspending someone like this.

I also reported that streamer to twitch, since I'm pretty sure his actions violate their ToS too.

Streamers/youtubers/etc have a lot of power to start witch hunts. Not only did he show that player's name, he made it even bigger and more prominent on his stream.

Fully backing this ^ Under no circumstances should harassment, witch hunting, hazing, or any other "abusive"/bullying behaviour should be allowed ever, period. Whatever they didn't see in the stream, I'm sure they had proof of in the chat logs themselves, and possibly witnesses (or report(s) by other people). It's basically conjecture, so there's no use arguing about it. But the GMs do investigate these sorts of things, and if they find substantial enough evidence to enforce ToS/rules for the safety of the gaming environment they should act. Heaven forbid they do their job to keep the rest of us players safe, right? Honestly, I think that streamer was downright lucky that he only got a ten day suspension and not an outright ban with that sort of evidence. Practically a slap on the wrist and a short groundation period. (I know there's a system of marks, but I think that one act alone was bad enough to probably warrant a ban, imo.) Sure, some times mistakes happen, but I don't think this suspension was a mistake.

To be frank, I think it makes people who defend bullies(?) against punishment fairly questionable. If it were me watching that twitch when it happened, I would have unsubbed, grab the link, and reported it to SE immediately.

[Legewiel]

Stating someone sucks at a game because they aren't performing as they should, even with colorful language in it is absolutely an opinion.

He was allowed to remake the party without the guy, he didn't need to state this """""opinion""""", like i said he is an influencer this is what is expected from him, to be better not just in the game but a better human too

[KageTokage]

I'd like to note this is one of the few cases of a GM report where evidence was actually supplied and wasn't a vague statement. If I can commend anything it's the fact a GM told what exactly it was that got them banned. Instead of the stuff we normally see where you probably have an idea of what was said, but others who want to take part in conversation need to ask.

While they cited the evidence, they also offered contradictory statements on what exactly was banworthy because while the GM was citing "slander" as the reason ingame, the actual ban notice was for profanity.

But yeah, I don't think skipping straight to a suspension when they opted to step past a boundary they seldom cross was a very fair move. Just warning someone is usually enough to get them back away from bad behavior and would've avoided all the drama this whole scenario is stirring up which overall stands to do them more harm them good.

Again, not saying the streamer wasn't in the wrong or anything, just that this could've been handled better then it was.

[MarniDawg]

He was allowed to remake the party without the guy, he didn't need to state this """""opinion""""", like i said he is an influencer this is what is expected from him, to be better not just in the game but a better human too

So """"better"""" humans are not allowed to criticize others? Humans by nature in my experience offer up things they don't like about other people all the time. Should we throw everyone in jail? Or maybe we could be the """better""" humans by simply accepting the fact that we dont all agree and move on.

I'm not saying what he said didnt hurt the other person's feelings. Maybe that was the best they could do. Instead of deciding that the correct course of action was to turn off the stream and keep playing the game, the person decided to be weak and have someone else take the blame for his best effort.

A """"better"""" person would keep playing and strive to figure out thier weakness and improve. Instead they were petty.

I have a friend who has several real disabilities that plays this game. He gets called out all the time in game and you know what he does? Even though it hurts his feelings he moves on and tries to improve.

These new TOS rules are inconsistently applied and in some cases unnecessary. A feature literally exists if you are being bothered in game. Unless actual threats are involved out of game policing is not needed. Heck even out of game it's not so much needed because real threats and harassment can be reported to the authorities.

[Jybril]

I get both parties are wrong because SE is pulling a "we're going off our own rules here"
but can't be asked to deal with clear sellers and stuff like that. While I personally don't care
if people wanna pay hundreds of dollars for a clear, they should be fair about all acts outside
the game if that's the case. So I agree with the cherry-picking stuff.
Update the ToS and be fair.

But on the other hand, that guy is straight up terrible and that's what he gets.
Don't openly put a parse up and then start making fun of the person
for hundreds and hundreds of people to see. That can very well lead to the victim
sitting here getting harassed in-game. I do believe it's the combination of using
the parse AND calling the player out. I don't think they care much
if people used a parse, but not if you're gonna be a poopyhead about it, and he was.
Like...come on guy, that's really childish and embarrassing.

[Arrius]

So """"better"""" humans are not allowed to criticize others?

It's like criticizing the person with fanfare and big shouts right in front of everyone - And you then wonder when you catch a punch to your face or you get told to get out?

Rants are there where you can trust those that you don't get ratted out. He did so openly, in the stream, so he got what he deserved.

[Legewiel]

So """"better"""" humans are not allowed to criticize others? Humans by nature in my experience offer up things they don't like about other people all the time. Should we throw everyone in jail? Or maybe we could be the """better""" humans by simply accepting the fact that we dont all agree and move on.

I'm not saying what he said didnt hurt the other person's feelings. Maybe that was the best they could do. Instead of deciding that the correct course of action was to turn off the stream and keep playing the game, the person decided to be weak and have someone else take the blame for his best effort.

A """"better"""" person would keep playing and strive to figure out thier weakness and improve. Instead they were petty.

I have a friend who has several real disabilities that plays this game. He gets called out all the time in game and you know what he does? Even though it hurts his feelings he moves on and tries to improve.

These new TOS rules are inconsistently applied and in some cases unnecessary. A feature literally exists if you are being bothered in game. Unless actual threats are involved out of game policing is not needed. Heck even out of game it's not so much needed because real threats and harassment can be reported to the authorities.

I don't think we'll ever agree on that, but the point is... the TOS states that this is a harassment, everyone agreed to play this game under this TOS so the ban is justified and btw this kind of TOS is normal for most games, so you'll have a hard time finding that "Holy Grail" of game where you can state your "opinion", maybe league of legends?

[Hash_Browns]

Update the ToS and be fair.

Not that I agree with the ban or anything, but:

PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES

In addition to the License Limitations, there are other activities that you are forbidden from doing in connection with the Game ("Prohibited Activities"). In its discretion, Square Enix may use a variety of methods to deal with violations of this User Agreement and the Prohibited Activities, including, but not limited to, any of the following:

Issuing a warning;

Placing a character in a "virtual jail" for a specified period of time;

Removing or deleting ill-gotten in-game items or currency;

Temporarily suspending an account;

Permanently terminating an account;

Permanently banning your IP address, residential address, or credit card number;

Asserting a lawsuit for breach of contract, copyright infringement, or other cause of action as may be applicable; and/or

Seeking injunctive relief in any court or jurisdiction to prevent you from continuing such activity.

It's already in the ToS.

[MarniDawg]

Yeah I don't think we will. I just see a very bad slope this sends streamers down. It's bad enough in game where you can't really even offer advice to help someone without worrying about getting reported for it.

I just wish these companies would amend their TOS to stop policing player squabbles and would spend more time with things that affect their game.

Also I dont disagree that it was an unjustified ban based on current TOS