Recent Developments of TOS Actions Taken

[Enla]

Troll post, I’m sure — but they’ll never do this. Their entire raid scene would die and they know it.

Arthars’ punishment is less about him using a parser and more about him using it to grief/harass/publicly shame a player. People seem to be conflating his ban with “oh, he used a third party tool and that’s why he was punished”. No, he publicly griefed and shamed another player—even if said player was griefing him first—and the parser just happened to be a tool he used. If he’d done it without a parser, he likely still would have been punished all the same.

This.

During the race for the first TEA clear many teams were streaming on Twitch and almost all of them had parsers clearly visible on their vods. If this matter was about parsers then all of them would be receiving punishment. Due to the fact that there's entire days worth of footage of them, spread out over nearly a week, using the third party software as they all pounded themselves against the newest Ultimate. Arthars himself was also doing this, actively participating in parser use, and SE didn't bat an eye then. Why? Because SE doesn't care about the use of parsers - they've even been known to endorse and admit to watching FFXIV Savage/Ultimate progression in their off time. What they care about was the harassment. That has always been their bug bear with parsers. Don't use them to harass other people and no one on the development team will blink an eye at you.

Also Arthars as a huge twitch streamer is in part a brand ambassador for the game whether he likes it or not. SE is fully within their rights to step in over objectionable content posted outside their game when it might start affecting the perception of their brand. It's why that pedo on twitter was banned and why Arthars was punished ultimately. He harassed someone in front of a sizable audience and didn't take steps to hide their name or ensure any basic needs of privacy were met for the other individual. AND broke SE's ONE rule regarding parsers in doing so. Of course he got smacked.

So all those of you celebrating the potential banning of parsers, I'd quit while you're ahead.

[RyuSaarva]

Define the "normal civil behaviour" in the game that is not real life.
Is spamming one emote making angry someone is civil behaviour?

clearly not especially when it's a custom emote with vulgar words, you know what civil behavior is there is no need to pretend otherwise.

[Nyxn607]

I feel the main reason SE took action on this is two fold.

1. Arthas had his character and twitch linked through the lodestone, which is a SE owned and maintained webiste.

2. Arthas publicly on stream bashed the player using the players in game name, highlighting it and basically humiliating the person. This is also fairly recent to the TEA incident with Sfia's group on the world first clear.

In my opinion, Arthas deserves punishment from twitch more so than SE. The only question I have is, does having your twitch/player info linked to the lodestone remove the third party restriction for SE to take action? If not, then SE is in the wrong and should clarify what line you can and can't cross with third party programs explicitly. Not just "you shouldn't but we will look the other way unless ..."

[KageTokage]

It's obvious that parsers are okay to them, but I'm wondering where their line is for "going too far" in terms of third party programs, because things like ACT can be set up to automate callouts for mechanics based on debuffs (IE, it can call out positionings for both Limit Cuts in TEA based on what number you get), other add-ons can automatically set up markers based on what mechanics are happening, etc.

[Alleo]

Parsing is officially against the ToS, but Yoshida has said you can use it if you keep it to yourself, but an interesting question is brought up: Is streaming considered keeping it to yourself?

(Just to be clear I have nothing against someone using a parser) At least in the past they could not have done anything and ignored it because if someone did not talk about it ingame and it only showed in a stream then it was purely outside evidence and they could and would not punish it.

But now they have stepped up to that and punished two dataminers and now that streamer purely with using outside evidence. Theoretically now they have to enforce ToS with parsers too because you are outright streaming the use of something which is against the ToS and in some cases even shouts out the incoming attacks.

Of course they will probably turn a blind eye on this because these raiders do have quite some people watching the world first races thus they would lose possible new players because of that...but I am not fine with it because you should not make special cases for something like that. Its just biased.

If you decide to use outside evidence now then make that clear and give people a chance to adapt to that change.

[monk-dps]

Why are people trying to paint this to whatever made up or over blown cause they have? Dude was in the wrong and clearly there was 98% real proof he was in said wrong. The wrong being he named and shamed. When even REDDIT has a no naming and shaming rule you KNOW it's a rule. Dude broke that on all accounts, so thats why he was banned. Honestly I don't think he was banned hard enough, clearly since he out right stated he'll never change. But that's another story and I'm not trying to talk about that. This has nothing to do with meters and whatnot, I guess the only reason it should come up is cause the player's name wasn't blocked out. Do I think SE over stepped? No. Dude has a massive following, dude broke rules even reddit has - naming and shaming- SE was provided clear proof it was said dude, AND he has the same info linked to his SE account so they know it was hi. SE did what any other company would've done. They did not over step, if anything all they need to do is apply that same logic to other things like the bots and sellers. Tho to be honest those are a bit harder to prove as those are in places like discord where you can easily fake things. It's alot harder to prove vs a live stream where the streamer's info is linked to SE site. Why does his massive following matter? Naming and shaming. The person in question could've had a massive amount of people trolling him ingame.

[Gula]

man_blinking_repeatedly.gif

Well, this happened.

I, personally, laugh. Because while I recognize parsers as a tool for improvement- this is why we can't have them. Especially with streamers who if they so much as sneeze in someone's direction, the attention will zero in on that individual. And in this case, it was in clear violation of the ToS. What I don't like is how inconsistent it is. Because I had video evidence of someone literally harassing me, following me [LIVE] and GMs wouldn't accept outside sources as proof. That person was never banned either.

Streamers with tact will modify the stream and/or make it so a witch hunt can't be initiated. This was not the case, they deserved the ban, and depending on how much money their slave fans throw at them, they could easily re-buy an account and do it all again.

[QT_Melon]

Yeah the parser is just a tool, and I distinctly remember Live Letters with Yoshi saying that he knows we use them, it was harassment that he was more concerned about. It was the Koike incident that put a nail in the coffer for having parsers in game. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4540031

It was NOT a nail int he coffin for using them in general even if it's a technical violation of the ToS.



In addition (and repeating), Arthars is unfortunately the worst example and person to back behind as a spokesperson for SE's recent stance. While I find Arthars entertaining, the problem is this situation and his smoke and mirrors game of a punishment he admits he deserves disheartening. It seems rather childish to try to use this as some kind of champion cause. He should have just quieted down, made a better statement about admitting guilt and said that the other slippery slope type questions regarding SE's stance should be taken up by those that those actually experiencing this issue.

He should have said he welcomed the dialog, but doesn't want to make a mockery of the issue by being the incident or being a mouthpiece.

The fact that he didn't hurt this situation far more than it helps to be honest.

(tl;dr it's like the equivalent of an admitted child molester/serial rapist murderer asking for more ethical treatment of prisoners)

[Kusanagi7]

he should have been banned for much longer and this whole thing is another reason sqeenix wont get behind official parsers.

[testname]

he should have been banned for much longer and this whole thing is another reason sqeenix wont get behind official parsers.

I Totally Agree with SE on BAN /

/ other thing is - if The Person would know that is doing low damage rotations, then the person could think how to improve

so we have in Game Parser its -> Dummy Target Test <-
( which NO ONE CARES to go and test rotations , but people should makes those tests )
( I would like to see - all extremes and savages locked behind Dummy Target Test - if You can beat it, You can enter for the Savage )


Due to my PF random Prog, I saw many people hitting the wall on E2S with min ilvl, and while I was scoping them "no materia" no food... etc... Yeah, I do care, and I did try to kill that Dummy E2S for 8 h straight, changing my rotations my materia, choosing proper food - and when I finally bated it, I was 100% sure that I can do it, and no one would complain about my dmg