Recent Developments of TOS Actions Taken

[Nedkel]

Alright time to post what I said in another area.

This streamer literally painted a big red target on themselves. When you are streaming to a group of people, you are, at that moment, a face for XIV. You are reflecting the game. Your account is also right there for everyone to see.
When SE says that they can't take certain evidence into account, it's because that evidence is easy to doctor or edit. This was just something yelling "hey, look at me!!"

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

[JunseiKei]

It's odd that outside of the game evidence is being used. Didn't the whole 'parsers are not allowed because of this one event happened and people made fun of them' done outside of the game? It's been too long, I can't recall the details anymore. I'm not entirely surprised, seeing how other companies will use other social media against you (Twitch, Twitter, Facebook, etc.). Does that mean those using Discord to sell clears for cash are now up for bans now, too? If Arthar's punishment should serve as an example, the answer should be yes.

[QT_Melon]

Arthars is not arguing that the ban was not warranted. Hell, he even admits that he deserves it. He's arguing that if evidence from outside the game is now fair game, it needs to be very clear that is now the case and, if limited to a specific subset,.

Just an FYI that's ALWAYS been a case, if you know where to look on SE's site for reporting harassment you can actually submit video evidence that SE can have Youtube for example take down. And that's been around BEFORE this latest issue. For years.

Also, if he is admitting guilt and saying these actions were worth a ban, then him being a spokesperson for a slippery slope issue is probably the worst thing to stand for at this time. It's diluting the message.

[KageTokage]

I've personally had the GMs mention that outside evidence is not accepted so do they not understand their own ToS, or does it depend on what you're reporting?

[Melichoir]

Snip

The black and white "If its not in game, its not evidence" view is something that is stemming from people proposing a scenario where you record a botter and use that to file the report, and SE saying that wont count that as evidence. Its an assumption that you recording someone else doing something that violates ToS wont count, then ALL outside recordings wont count. The issue here is the nuance in what is being recorded and by whom. You could call it poor phrasing by SE perhaps, but their position was just shorthand for "Dont expect us to ban people based ONLY on your personal recordings of other players." Theres very practical reasons for that standard.

However, if you report another player who had recorded THEMSELVES breaking and flaunting that break of the ToS, they would likely consider that. Consider it this way: are we gonna argue SE cant or wont ban you if you record yourself using hacks and bragging about it cause the recording is on Twitch and you werent caught in game doing it? I think we all realistically know the GMs will end your account over that and no one is gonna contest that. No one is gonna realistically argue "Nah, that didnt count cause GMs didnt catch it in game." The general consensus will be "You deserved to get banned for breaking the rules and being stupid enough to flaunt it."

It all boils down to what is being recorded and by whom. If youre recording yourself doing it and you are the source, Theyre gonna use that. If I link the GMs to your stream where you openly record and admit to doing these actions, that is far different than if I record you without your knowledge or full context of the scenario.

You more or less have the right of it though. If they dont self incriminate, they wont likely ban for it. However I think you jump the gun a bit by suggesting they wont even take a look. As I pointed out before, the evidence you submit from your own recordings will not trigger a ban, but it may trigger them to investigate and see if they can catch them in game doing it. If they cant catch them, then they will not ban.

[jameseoakes]

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

However you do have to conform to the ToS which you agreed to abide by when you started the game and they can and should take action when you break it.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

However, if you are using said game to make money, and are going against said games ToS, the company is well within their right to prevent you from harassing its players to make money.

[QT_Melon]

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

Well is it out of free will or is he getting Twitch sponsored or other sponsorships?

[JBee]

An example I found in Reddit (Can't verify tho)

I was downvoted to hell when they notified everyone about changing the TOD for harassment a while back. They made the language so vague that even telling someone how to do mechanics could be considered “criticism of play style” and worth a suspension.

I was suspended a few weeks ago for 3 days. My offense? During one of the raids, I asked in chat, “does anyone not know the mechanics? You have to actually stand in the circles and save the LB for the end.” That was my only message.

I was then told I’d be suspended for offending another persons play style. I said I only gave advice after confirming that raid was indeed the reason I was getting suspended.

I was told by the GM, “even advice violates our TOS if another play feels uncomfortable.”

It was unbelievable. I screenshot it and showed my wife. I literally do not use chat at all anymore for fear of it happening again. I ignored everyone and everything.

So the reddit user claimed a one sentence explanation of a mechanic resulted in a three day suspension... But hasn't one of the primary complaints been than if you ARE chastised or punished they do not give you details of what you did, to prevent retribution?

So how would that user know that's what it was about?

Chances are, they did something else to warrant it, or it's just made up entirely.

As for the main situation, at first I had a knee jerk reaction of, "Wait, they are punishing people in an MMO for something done on Twitch," and I was a little unhappy with the future implications. Where is the line drawn, etc.

But that's not what happened.

A verified Twitch streamer with a sizeable following and viewership didn't just make an offhand comment about someone... There were zoom ins and effects, etc. It wasn't an upset, offhanded comment, it was a short segment on a live feed publicly doxxing a character in an MMO. And I would bet that character absolutely got tells and PMs and whatever else over it.

And again, this is why there is no in game meter outside of the SSS dummies to test dps and rotations for people who want to improve. While the intentions for it might be good, the few demonstrate the masses can't be trusted with it. I'm not saying it's ok to go into a duty and expect to be carried - regardless of duty - but it's not ok either to publicly blast them like that.

Is it helpful to know in a raid if you have a weak link dps wise so issues can be sorted? Yes, of course it is.

But you don't hammer a nail in with a 747 either.

The community doesn't need toxic elitists any more than it needs people who refuse to participate and expect to be carried.

[Barraind]

So how would that user know that's what it was about?

In this case, it was posted on a JP GM blog.

Again, they're a LOT more communicative with people in Japan.