PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[WhyAmIHere]

K this is a troll post.

"After the 2nd boss, she decides it's a really great idea to do a 2-group pull, and pop Hallowed Ground first thing. That's fine and all, until we get to the part where the DPS were taking their time killing the mobs, and I wound up blowing an Excog, Sacred Soil, and two Lustrates."

after the 2nd boss you /cannot/ pull more than just one pack at a time due to how they spawn.

[Maeka]

K this is a troll post.

"After the 2nd boss, she decides it's a really great idea to do a 2-group pull, and pop Hallowed Ground first thing. That's fine and all, until we get to the part where the DPS were taking their time killing the mobs, and I wound up blowing an Excog, Sacred Soil, and two Lustrates."

after the 2nd boss you /cannot/ pull more than just one pack at a time due to how they spawn.

So I did Holminster Switch again this morning with trusts, and I got mixed up, I meant after the first boss. That long pathway with the gremlins. Some reason I was thinking that section was after the second boss. It had been awhile since I had done that dungeon, and I just remember a boss, and a long narrow pathway with gremlins. *shrug* Kinda silly to call someone a troll because they got segments of the dungeon mixed up with each other. By the time I got to that gremlin area, it just felt like it was taking forever because of the stress and because of how much I wanted that dungeon run to be over.

This is not a troll thread, I simply got mixed up on what section was where in the dungeon.

As for Alistaire's comments...

I thought about this, and...

Not paying attention to things like major cooldowns of your healers is a fail. A tank's job is all about situational awareness and failing to understand your healer and the cooldowns they are using if you are going to do something you know by now is a risky move, is just plain fail all the way around.

Just doing what you want to do and not caring about the rest of the group is not a good habit for any tank to get into, a tank needs to be mindful of the rest of the group, just like a healer should. The only people that can really get away with only caring about the enemies they are attacking are DPS and even then I would argue that they should at least pay attention to what's going on around them (for things like stack mechanics).

[WhyAmIHere]

So I did Holminster Switch again this morning with trusts, and I got mixed up, I meant after the first boss. That long pathway with the gremlins. Some reason I was thinking that section was after the second boss. It had been awhile since I had done that dungeon, and I just remember a boss, and a long narrow pathway with gremlins. *shrug* Kinda silly to call someone a troll because they got segments of the dungeon mixed up with each other. By the time I got to that gremlin area, it just felt like it was taking forever because of the stress and because of how much I wanted that dungeon run to be over.

This is not a troll thread, I simply got mixed up on what section was where in the dungeon.

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Not paying attention to things like major cooldowns of your healers is a fail. A tank's job is all about situational awareness and failing to understand your healer and the cooldowns they are using if you are going to do something you know by now is a risky move, is just plain fail all the way around.

Just doing what you want to do and not caring about the rest of the group is not a good habit for any tank to get into, a tank needs to be mindful of the rest of the group, just like a healer should. The only people that can really get away with only caring about the enemies they are attacking are DPS and even then I would argue that they should at least pay attention to what's going on around them (for things like stack mechanics).

Fair enough. Yes, the two pulls with the gremlins is genuinely tough solely for those gremlins popping slow on the tank. Yes, that part is hard, but any skilled player (read: not many) will / should know how to handle that as a large pull, or just bite the bullet and do that pull split into single pulls.

However...

The part where you responded to someone else...
Do you even tank?
Tanks have to manage their own dps rotation, mitigative cooldowns, mob positioning, dodging AoEs, etc. A tank, no, a player cannot be expected to maintain full situational awareness for everyone in the party. "Did the melee feint this add? did the caster addle this damage? did the ranged use their partywide?"

You come off selfish and spoiled expecting random players to cater to your playstyle in group content. Most competent tanks will know what the three healers can do and cannot do, but every healer played well can handle large pulls. It's just to varying degrees of effectiveness and efficiency. Just expecting someone you dont know to know how you play is not a good habit for any healer, no any /player/ to get into.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

However...

The part where you responded to someone else...
Do you even tank?
Tanks have to manage their own dps rotation, mitigative cooldowns, mob positioning, dodging AoEs, etc. A tank, no, a player cannot be expected to maintain full situational awareness for everyone in the party. "Did the melee feint this add? did the caster addle this damage? did the ranged use their partywide?"

You come off selfish and spoiled expecting random players to cater to your playstyle in group content. Most competent tanks will know what the three healers can do and cannot do, but every healer played well can handle large pulls. It's just to varying degrees of effectiveness and efficiency. Just expecting someone you dont know to know how you play is not a good habit for any healer, no any /player/ to get into.

This right back at us tanks, are we supposed to expect that the healer is 100% responsible for us or is this also our job? I mean, it clearly is based on cooldowns, but if after cooldowns and your healer spending stuff as well he still might have issues, what is more important, doing 1x 525 potency / 375*n (n = amount of enemies) more damage or recovering 1800 potency of healing, stabilizing the situation?

[WhyAmIHere]

This right back at us tanks, are we supposed to expect that the healer is 100% responsible for us or is this also our job? I mean, it clearly is based on cooldowns, but if after cooldowns and your healer spending stuff as well he still might have issues, what is more important, doing 1x 525 potency / 375*n (n = amount of enemies) more damage or recovering 1800 potency of healing, stabilizing the situation?

my opinion? In the absolute worst case of "I popped all of my cooldowns, I'm out of MP, my healer is out of MP and maybe resources, what do?" I'd say just eat the wipe and try again. it's a dungeon, not savage/ultimate. A wipe in a dungeon isn't the end of the world. Tanks: space / use your cooldowns more smartly. Healers: plan / use your tools more smartly. DPS: idk just faff about and kill things quicker.

Otherwise as long as everyone was doing everything right (and i've been in situations where I had to heal a supermegabigdudechad tank that never used cooldowns, not fun) then no one is "at fault." It happens. Move on, learn from the experience.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

my opinion? In the absolute worst case of "I popped all of my cooldowns, I'm out of MP, my healer is out of MP and maybe resources, what do?" I'd say just eat the wipe and try again. it's a dungeon, not savage/ultimate. A wipe in a dungeon isn't the end of the world. Tanks: space / use your cooldowns more smartly. Healers: plan / use your tools more smartly. DPS: idk just faff about and kill things quicker.

Otherwise as long as everyone was doing everything right (and i've been in situations where I had to heal a supermegabigdudechad tank that never used cooldowns, not fun) then no one is "at fault." It happens. Move on, learn from the experience.

Unless the PLD is actually also out of MP and thus can't be using spells to begin with, I agree to disagree and believe it is smarter trying to bridge the gap to the next cooldown with a Clemency instead. You learn enough knowing that this was an awful situation you don't want to be in again (one would assume so at least); wiping is an unnecessary and arguably more painful process than in Savage / Ultimate because it hits down on the morale harder when you wipe to entry-level content rather than end-game content.

[Yorumi]

This right back at us tanks, are we supposed to expect that the healer is 100% responsible for us or is this also our job? I mean, it clearly is based on cooldowns, but if after cooldowns and your healer spending stuff as well he still might have issues, what is more important, doing 1x 525 potency / 375*n (n = amount of enemies) more damage or recovering 1800 potency of healing, stabilizing the situation?

I admit I say this as someone who hasn't healed since early SB and took a break from the game but I always found that if I was just pure healing and not trying to dps it was pretty braindead to keep a tank alive. I made sure to keep my weapon near the ilvl of the dungeon and that was all it really took. Even tanks that didn't use cooldowns weren't a major problem. I won't outright refuse to use clemency or pull smaller. At the same time my experience healing before was that if a healer is failing to heal more than one group at a time then they're really failing to meet even the most generous competency standard and probably shouldn't be in that dungeon in the first place. I'm not trying to say there aren't terrible tanks out there but healing is just not a terribly difficult job when all you're doing is healing and nothing else.

[XiXiQ]

after the 2nd boss you /cannot/ pull more than just one pack at a time due to how they spawn.

I thought so as well, but considering how it happens, to someone who hasn't tanked it themselves, it might appear like the tank is pulling deliberately when they are not.