SMN changed to full trance + demi summons when

[Siete]

Just got firebird trance. The class keeps getting weirder and weirder
Keeping up Dots barely make sense, I am now just a trance swinger and I don't even have the phoenix summon yet

[Razard]

Just got firebird trance. The class keeps getting weirder and weirder
Keeping up Dots barely make sense, I am now just a trance swinger and I don't even have the phoenix summon yet

Never

/endtopic

[Siete]

Never

/endtopic

Jokes' on you, it already is.

[Dracan_Fontom]

Not if you want good dps.

[Silverquick]

They are really wierd, and out of order too.

The normal Deathflare is usually used in AoE on trash mobs and such. The Bahamut Trance/Demi is better on Single target because of the Wyrmwave + Ruin combo... so for Boss Mobs. The Phoenix trance that comes last is almost entirely AoE... or rather the best parts of it are... so Trash mobs and adds.

That would be ok EXCEPT... the normal encounter scheme in almost all instances short of 8 mans is...

Trash mobs... more Trash Mobs... then Boss Mobs...

But the Trances are out of order...

Deathflare (AoE)... Bahamut Demi + Wyrmwave (mostly single target)... Phoenix Trance (AoE multi target).. and you can't change the order you do them in.

[wereotter]

They are really wierd, and out of order too.

The normal Deathflare is usually used in AoE on trash mobs and such. The Bahamut Trance/Demi is better on Single target because of the Wyrmwave + Ruin combo... so for Boss Mobs. The Phoenix trance that comes last is almost entirely AoE... or rather the best parts of it are... so Trash mobs and adds.

That would be ok EXCEPT... the normal encounter scheme in almost all instances short of 8 mans is...

Trash mobs... more Trash Mobs... then Boss Mobs...

But the Trances are out of order...

Deathflare (AoE)... Bahamut Demi + Wyrmwave (mostly single target)... Phoenix Trance (AoE multi target).. and you can't change the order you do them in.

It might SEEM out of order, but it's still better DPS to pull out Bahamut on trash than to just use Garuda the whole time. If you get two Akh Morn casts off Bahamut while he's out you're doing more potency (1,300 potency on the target enemy, 650 on every other enemy total) than you are from the 10 casts of Wind Blade (300 potency total) that Garuda would do. Additionally you can still get wyrmwave attacks off casting Outburst.

I find in most dungeons at level 80, I can enkindle Bahamut on the first pack pulls, use Firebird Trance on the second pack, and be ready to go to summon Bahamut again for the boss by the time that starts.

[Silverquick]

It might SEEM out of order, but it's still better DPS to pull out Bahamut on trash than to just use Garuda the whole time.

I'm not disputing that, and I agree with you.

Its just that often I will find myself at the last stage of mobs before a Boss Mob going... Hmm Bahamut Demi is up in my Trance Order, do I blow it now? Or... save it as an opener on the Boss Mob. And I can't change the order of the trancing.

So it ends up out of the normal flow of the instance. That's my actual point.

[Neela]

you got more than enough aoe skills in between... titans aoe, ruda in general, hyper buffed bane in combination with Tri as well painflare for aether stacks. I remember the name... Silver... didn't u try to recommend people to push mp back in HW for more "out of trance ruin 3s?" - if I remember correctly you didn't understood SMN in HW... nor does your comment conclude that you understand SMN in ShB : /

[Silverquick]

Its actually the opposite Neela, the tactics I used to push for AoE damage in HW here were so nasty its likely why it got nerfed so bad in Stormblood because so many people started to use them.

I think you may have it confused with the fact I pushed people to use Ruin 3 outside of Trance as the later stages of HW due to gear, you had so much MP and all your other attacks were generally Aetherflow abilities that you never spent enough MP on anything else to ever use it.

So you could Ruin 3 without penalty even though it was mana costly... resulting in a large single target damage boost to the SMN the Devs hadn't accounted for. They hadn't intended it to be used outside of trance.

Also possibly why Ruin 3's damage got nerfed at the outset of Stormblood because other people probably figured that out too.

[Neela]

Don’t spread false news again - it was me who told you that smn use R3 out of Trance to optimise Dmg. But dw worry im done with discussions like that. And people who talk bout things they do not understand as well. ^^