Umbrellas...? And less content...?

[yukiiyuki]

Maybe because dungeons is the essence of every MMO game, people love to explore, see stuff, fight against different bosses in the same cave/house etc. We waited and asking for fun dungeons since HW, with puzzles, traps, side quests inside the dungeons that gives you additional goals, make the reward worth the time you spend there. What do we got? They just cut off one dungeon, so we can run one with AI and that's means no engaging content for 4 people whatsoever.
But I was taking about overall problem with the game and it's lack of battle ideas, circle/square arena with stand there dodge this and stack up mechanics is kinda lame after you see it 3 expansions in a row.
Forum not a place to talk about those things though, but at least I see more and more players that start to criticize the game, that's a really good thing. Stagnation is a degradation.

[Auryan]

Maybe because dungeons is the essence of every MMO game, people love to explore, see stuff, fight against different bosses in the same cave/house etc. We waited and asking for fun dungeons since HW, with puzzles, traps, side quests inside the dungeons that gives you additional goals, make the reward worth the time you spend there. What do we got? They just cut off one dungeon, so we can run one with AI and that's means no engaging content for 4 people whatsoever.
But I was taking about overall problem with the game and it's lack of battle ideas, circle/square arena with stand there dodge this and stack up mechanics is kinda lame after you see it 3 expansions in a row.
Forum not a place to talk about those things though, but at least I see more and more players that start to criticize the game, that's a really good thing. Stagnation is a degradation.

You can get all of that, just not from the 4 man dungeons. Whatever the reasons, they don't see it a good investment for what some people want from them. If you want side quest, traps and puzzles, all of that from a dungeon, than look no further than Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka. Players set goals for what they want to do (clear or farm), the feeling of danger and mystery was there when it first came out (people thought that in order to beat AV you had to have each job do their signature move, which was hilariously wrong) and people hugged the walls in paranoid fear of getting bombed (which was not wrong since people started using the trap finding logo until a bit later).

If losing one story dungeon results in more public dungeons in the next exploratory content, I'm more than happy to make the trade. Which by the sounds of your statement is what you want from a dungeon anyway.

[yukiiyuki]

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>Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka
One per expansion and you need to do many conditions to open it, its not a dungeon where you just need group of 4 friends and entrance to it. So there's not even variety in this situation.
And too bad that we're not gonna lose story one, but the one without MSQ behind of it. Whatever, people just want some social stuff and MSQ from the game anyway. Hope someday YoshiP will fulfill his dream and create an independent and unique MMO with the budget he really deserves.

[Auryan]

>Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka
One per expansion and you need to do many conditions to open it, its not a dungeon where you just need group of 4 friends and entrance to it. So there's not even variety in this situation.
And too bad that we're not gonna lose story one, but the one without MSQ behind of it. Whatever, people just want some social stuff and MSQ from the game anyway. Hope someday YoshiP will fulfill his dream and create an independent and unique MMO with the budget he really deserves.

I know BA was the one-off from Eureka. I'm suggesting they make more of them, even in smaller forms. Doesn't have to be a massive 52-man dungeon. Could be no bigger than 32 or even smaller. While at it, make the access to these dungeons much less irritating making the whole thing go smoother. All the while keeping the things you want from 4-man dungeons into these public dungeons. Exploratory content is a good place to experiment with it being essentially a separate game mode.

You crave something that they don't want to provide. Instead of lingering on that fact, why not try to get that desire from other forms of content? Sounds like a more practical way forward.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

I know BA was the one-off from Eureka. I'm suggesting they make more of them, even in smaller forms. Doesn't have to be a massive 52-man dungeon. Could be no bigger than 32 or even smaller. While at it, make the access to these dungeons much less irritating making the whole thing go smoother. All the while keeping the things you want from 4-man dungeons into these public dungeons. Exploratory content is a good place to experiment with it being essentially a separate game mode.

You crave something that they don't want to provide. Instead of lingering on that fact, why not try to get that desire from other forms of content? Sounds like a more practical way forward.

Your suggestion wouldn't add anything new to the game that we already don't have. What you're suggesting sounds an awful lot like Labyrinth of the Ancients, Void Ark, and 24-man Raids in general. Content that's easy to access with 10 million other players in your party, and again, stuff we have in droves.

What would be fun is something actually new, like 5-man dungeons or 8-man dungeons again. The reason the only 2 8-man dungeons we have failed are because of the sheer amount of sporadically placed cutscenes that happen every 5 footsteps.

[Auryan]

Your suggestion wouldn't add anything new to the game that we already don't have. What you're suggesting sounds an awful lot like Labyrinth of the Ancients, Void Ark, and 24-man Raids in general. Content that's easy to access with 10 million other players in your party, and again, stuff we have in droves.

What would be fun is something actually new, like 5-man dungeons or 8-man dungeons again. The reason the only 2 8-man dungeons we have failed are because of the sheer amount of sporadically placed cutscenes that happen every 5 footsteps.

That's not what I'm suggesting, like, at all. I'm more of in favor of adding more of something that is already in game: public dungeons. That of course means that it comes with its shared mechanics from the exploratory content and its own interesting quirks like BA's "no standard raises" limitation and the social aspect of building spontaneous parties to enter and tackle said dungeons. All of that together makes it much different than the alliance raids. I guess they would sound alike if you're just basing it on just the alliance size, but that's too reductionist.

Nah. People disliked those 8-man dungeons because they are piss easy (easier than most 4 man) and way too long (even excluding the cutscenes). People had no problem with the cutscenes pre-SB because you could skip them. Didn't make the experience more entertaining, just not as painfully slow as it is now.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

That of course means that it comes with its shared mechanics from the exploratory content and its own interesting quirks like BA's "no standard raises" limitation and the social aspect of building spontaneous parties to enter and tackle said dungeons.

So an Alliance raid but with a "No Resurrections" quirk.

All of that together makes it much different than the alliance raids.

Not really, especially when BA isn't even a "public dungeon" or "open dungeon", as some people call it. It's an instance inside of an instance and only 56 people were able to get into it at a time, much less succeed in finishing it without being a static. Which brings us back to what you said in your previous post about lowering the grueling process of entry. At that point it really is just another alliance raid but with silly quirks.

People disliked those 8-man dungeons because they are piss easy.

The MSQ dungeons are only easy now because of nerfs to the dungeons themselves, high iLvls and massive power creep.