Umbrellas...? And less content...?

[frostmagemari]

And again I ask a Counter Question
...why are people flipping out over getting 1 dungeon instead of 2? Especially when people have complained that XIV's dungeons are boring, or dont matter after a run or 3?
If the Dungeon designs aren't that great and people stop caring about them after a run or 3, whats the point in putting so much time into making 2 AND other content...when they can just make 1 and other Content?

I think the idea is that people want dungeon content to be better when they complain that they're boring, not that they want to have them start being cut from the development cycle bit by bit.

And If it is Id love to hear some rational reasoning on how that affects FFXIV. How is 1 less dungeon so bad when we are still getting other new content in the next patch?

Because a lot of the additional content that SQEX puts out isn't something that grabs a person's attention for more than a week (Blue Mage); or they only design it so they're internally happy with it, and then spend the rest of the expansion trying to fix the content because by in large, very few of their customers were happy with their pet project that they spent all that time on (Diadem and Eureka).

[Auryan]

I think the idea is that people want dungeon content to be better when they complain that they're boring, not that they want to have them start being cut from the development cycle bit by bit.

Because a lot of the additional content that SQEX puts out isn't something that grabs a person's attention for more than a week (Blue Mage); or they only design it so they're internally happy with it, and then spend the rest of the expansion trying to fix the content because by in large, very few of their customers were happy with their pet project that they spent all that time on (Diadem and Eureka).

And dungeons do? Ask anyone in-game and they'll likely tell you that a dungeon's appeal ends after the third or fourth run and becomes just another place to farm weekly tomes or another randomized location for expert roulette. SE doesn't want to make 4 man dungeons anything more than just a place to progress story with a little bit of lore and glamour attached to them. For difficult challenges, they focus on the 8-man content where they can work out balance easier as well as getting more job representation than a 4-man savage dungeon would. And I'm fine with that, others are not.

Or if they want to get more experimental with dungeons, they can work on adding more public dungeons on a smaller scale like the Baldesion Arsenal which besides the way you access it (instance hopping and portal reservation sucked), was warmly received by the players that enjoyed Eureka and those that wanted the Ozma mount.

[yukiiyuki]

Maybe because dungeons is the essence of every MMO game, people love to explore, see stuff, fight against different bosses in the same cave/house etc. We waited and asking for fun dungeons since HW, with puzzles, traps, side quests inside the dungeons that gives you additional goals, make the reward worth the time you spend there. What do we got? They just cut off one dungeon, so we can run one with AI and that's means no engaging content for 4 people whatsoever.
But I was taking about overall problem with the game and it's lack of battle ideas, circle/square arena with stand there dodge this and stack up mechanics is kinda lame after you see it 3 expansions in a row.
Forum not a place to talk about those things though, but at least I see more and more players that start to criticize the game, that's a really good thing. Stagnation is a degradation.

[Auryan]

Maybe because dungeons is the essence of every MMO game, people love to explore, see stuff, fight against different bosses in the same cave/house etc. We waited and asking for fun dungeons since HW, with puzzles, traps, side quests inside the dungeons that gives you additional goals, make the reward worth the time you spend there. What do we got? They just cut off one dungeon, so we can run one with AI and that's means no engaging content for 4 people whatsoever.
But I was taking about overall problem with the game and it's lack of battle ideas, circle/square arena with stand there dodge this and stack up mechanics is kinda lame after you see it 3 expansions in a row.
Forum not a place to talk about those things though, but at least I see more and more players that start to criticize the game, that's a really good thing. Stagnation is a degradation.

You can get all of that, just not from the 4 man dungeons. Whatever the reasons, they don't see it a good investment for what some people want from them. If you want side quest, traps and puzzles, all of that from a dungeon, than look no further than Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka. Players set goals for what they want to do (clear or farm), the feeling of danger and mystery was there when it first came out (people thought that in order to beat AV you had to have each job do their signature move, which was hilariously wrong) and people hugged the walls in paranoid fear of getting bombed (which was not wrong since people started using the trap finding logo until a bit later).

If losing one story dungeon results in more public dungeons in the next exploratory content, I'm more than happy to make the trade. Which by the sounds of your statement is what you want from a dungeon anyway.

[Payadopa]

With 70+ dungeons in the game, they just need to grow some testicles and make a dozen of them actually challenging. Solves a lot of issues. Its no surprise dungeons are unpopular. They are released outdated, follow the same pattern every time, drop useless loot and need to be spammed for tomestones.

At least give us more incentives for doing them as minimal ilvl. I have enough problems convincing my FC mates to do them with me.

Or make a minimal ilvl roulette, c'mon.

[yukiiyuki]

-

>Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka
One per expansion and you need to do many conditions to open it, its not a dungeon where you just need group of 4 friends and entrance to it. So there's not even variety in this situation.
And too bad that we're not gonna lose story one, but the one without MSQ behind of it. Whatever, people just want some social stuff and MSQ from the game anyway. Hope someday YoshiP will fulfill his dream and create an independent and unique MMO with the budget he really deserves.

[Auryan]

>Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka
One per expansion and you need to do many conditions to open it, its not a dungeon where you just need group of 4 friends and entrance to it. So there's not even variety in this situation.
And too bad that we're not gonna lose story one, but the one without MSQ behind of it. Whatever, people just want some social stuff and MSQ from the game anyway. Hope someday YoshiP will fulfill his dream and create an independent and unique MMO with the budget he really deserves.

I know BA was the one-off from Eureka. I'm suggesting they make more of them, even in smaller forms. Doesn't have to be a massive 52-man dungeon. Could be no bigger than 32 or even smaller. While at it, make the access to these dungeons much less irritating making the whole thing go smoother. All the while keeping the things you want from 4-man dungeons into these public dungeons. Exploratory content is a good place to experiment with it being essentially a separate game mode.

You crave something that they don't want to provide. Instead of lingering on that fact, why not try to get that desire from other forms of content? Sounds like a more practical way forward.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

I know BA was the one-off from Eureka. I'm suggesting they make more of them, even in smaller forms. Doesn't have to be a massive 52-man dungeon. Could be no bigger than 32 or even smaller. While at it, make the access to these dungeons much less irritating making the whole thing go smoother. All the while keeping the things you want from 4-man dungeons into these public dungeons. Exploratory content is a good place to experiment with it being essentially a separate game mode.

You crave something that they don't want to provide. Instead of lingering on that fact, why not try to get that desire from other forms of content? Sounds like a more practical way forward.

Your suggestion wouldn't add anything new to the game that we already don't have. What you're suggesting sounds an awful lot like Labyrinth of the Ancients, Void Ark, and 24-man Raids in general. Content that's easy to access with 10 million other players in your party, and again, stuff we have in droves.

What would be fun is something actually new, like 5-man dungeons or 8-man dungeons again. The reason the only 2 8-man dungeons we have failed are because of the sheer amount of sporadically placed cutscenes that happen every 5 footsteps.

[Auryan]

Your suggestion wouldn't add anything new to the game that we already don't have. What you're suggesting sounds an awful lot like Labyrinth of the Ancients, Void Ark, and 24-man Raids in general. Content that's easy to access with 10 million other players in your party, and again, stuff we have in droves.

What would be fun is something actually new, like 5-man dungeons or 8-man dungeons again. The reason the only 2 8-man dungeons we have failed are because of the sheer amount of sporadically placed cutscenes that happen every 5 footsteps.

That's not what I'm suggesting, like, at all. I'm more of in favor of adding more of something that is already in game: public dungeons. That of course means that it comes with its shared mechanics from the exploratory content and its own interesting quirks like BA's "no standard raises" limitation and the social aspect of building spontaneous parties to enter and tackle said dungeons. All of that together makes it much different than the alliance raids. I guess they would sound alike if you're just basing it on just the alliance size, but that's too reductionist.

Nah. People disliked those 8-man dungeons because they are piss easy (easier than most 4 man) and way too long (even excluding the cutscenes). People had no problem with the cutscenes pre-SB because you could skip them. Didn't make the experience more entertaining, just not as painfully slow as it is now.

[Banriikku]

I hear a lot : Less Dungeons are better and we have already so many.
My point is - SE killed them except a few with hard sync. Many Dungeons or Raids are just broken because of the nerfs and such. So the argument "we have so many dungeons" is right but most of them are just broken easy and a boring chore. Eureka needed A LOT OF PATCHES AND TIME before it got decent, not even good. And they didnt say anything but "we will make better content" but what is this "better content".
I am concerned because we got no information whats so ever on the plans regarding where is FF14 going but we got a lot "we cant" "not possible" "not our vision of the game" etc. I dont expect details or promises but atleast "our idea at the moment is...." or something like this. Also the rewards for many duties are just a waste of inventory space and the power creep from Tomestonegear is also very early noticeable in SHB and so on. I am not sure whtas going on i hope the next LL is a good one.