My Rework idea for SCH II

[CrimsonGunner]

As a SCH main I must dig into this, but I can't say some things make sense from an initial glance. You added Libra, but Chain Stratagem is Libra, naming aside. I like the ideas of skills being "plans" but the naming convention seems off. And why leave Art of War's name, T.T

My biggest gripe though is, you make all of these changes and dont give them Meltdown, HOW DARE YOU, lol. But the biggest issue is how would this work alongside the other healers?

Here are some brief observations:

The Energy Drain, Aetherflow change makes no sense honestly, since the SMN version is actually inferior. Plus if Aetherflow is just an MP refresh skill now it's even worse. Getting both earlier again would be nice.

While I wish the name would change, Ruin II is a benefit on SCH, since they are the only healer with and instant GCD attack spell.

You removed Emergency Tactics, but didn't give SCH any healing spells to supplement it. Shields don't always work sadly.

Some of the moves have CC involved. SE seems to be moving past this with most skills.

Also some of the "newer" skills you added seem to have similar effects to old ones, why not just use the old names, like Fey Wind.

Plan A sounds nice, but since they removed Cleric Stance, I think it's safe to say they dont wanna reduce healing output to increase DPS anymore.

Additionally, Plans A, B, and C all feel like they fight eachother a bit. Not to the extent that Dissipation, Aetherpact, and Summon Seraph currently do, but skills shouldn't fight one another.
(For those not aware, SCH has an issue where besides its lv 50 skill, none of it's capstone skills, mentioned above, can be used together, as using one locks the other two out)

Also, SCH only has one faerie, Lily, they don't have 3. So an ability like Delta Formation doesn't make much sense. Though I do like the idea of giving SCH a healing/damage move, similar to Assize and Earthly Star. Since only SCH doesn't have a skill like that.

PS, maybe try to adjust the layout of how the information is set up, so it's easier to distinguish the sills and information like CD and MP cost. Right now it all just flows into one another and can be difficult to discern.

noted about the cd and mp cost and i will try to edit it. as for old spell names i didn't know but i like fey wind better so i will use it ty.

as for libra ,true that chain is suppose to be like libra but libra is originally the scan spell that lets you know your enemies weakness and strengths meaning not only you can deal critical damage to him you could reduce his damage by knowing what Resistance you need so i thought i take that element for libra to reduce damage.

they do fight one another cause you can only use 1 at a time and cannot apply 2 plans at the same time,the idea is scholar use 1 plan active if he needs to like a part of a phase in his tactics.
he can always cancel his current plan and switch to another at any time but he will need to consider the cd time to activate it again(noted that it wasn't written there so i updated it ^^ )

aetherflow is both mp/stack filler which is different to ED which deal damage/stack ,it still relevant for mp management.(again that is how i see it),as for putting it at lower levels i used the base level in SHB so i am not sure if putting it at lower level is that good but i will think and try to see about that idea.

even though instant cast gcd dps skill is nice to have,i removed ruin II cause i think it better to remain with ruin/broil since there is plan B that can help make broil/miasma to be instant cast just like lightspeed and i gave other options to deal instant damage like ED/Fester to use for movement (true that they are ogcd but it still can help ^^)

as for emergency tactics removal,i thought a better approach would be for scholar to have tools that will increase his base healing spells and buff their potencies like plan c that increase both his healing and shielding while increasing his healing crit rate and amount or light blessing that boost the fairy healing momentarily rather then convert his shield(i am not sure if i say it right but i basically thought it was more to his theme to find ways to strengthen his base spells potencies instead to just convert his shields again that is how i feel scholar acts)

as for fairy delta formation,i updated the description.
i guess it wasn't that clear but the idea is scholar form a formation together with eos and selene both of lily aspects and deploy the spell.,my bad.

as for the other 2 i didn't count their current version in this rework idea because i believe all 3 healers need a rework idea and if i could i would also change WHM and AST to have more skills related to their themes

would love to hear more notes if you have

[Eloah]

snip

Okay on the setup, that might be where a few things get muddled in your delivery. That's semi why I got confused with ED and Aetherflow.

As for Libra you aren't wrong in your "description" of what the sill can do, but it's a bit miscalculated, I guess is how I'd put it. Based on what you said, you'd be trying to bolster your own defenses, which falls under the healer/tank umbrella. But a skill that does that would be something to cast on the party, not the enemy. Additionally, while it does do both, what you made was a merged version of Feint and Addle. Unfortunately, with the new BLU Condensed Libra added, it shows SE is more inclined to have it focus on offense than defense. But I wont say just forget it, I'd just suggest finding another way of implementing the skill.

As for ED and Aetherflow, the current system is best, sorry to say. With your system the stacks might become too commonplace, and management would be almost nonexistent. SMN doesn't need to manage stacks, but SCH does. Plus, there is no skill to burn excess stacks. That's part of the reason SCH was given back ED in the first place. Your system sounds alright in theory. But since both grant stacks, you'll wind up having more than you'll need once the skill is off CD. And to use a stack on an unnecessary heal is just bad. It would be better if one did damage and restored MP, but at that point it's the same as the current system, just different CDs.

As for the SCH theme. Well let's be honest, has expansions come and go, their theme is muddled. But the basis is a tactical healer with a pet. So as far as wanting to make more pet-centric skills, yes that would be welcomed by almost everyone; though I would be careful on the potential fluff. Some things might sound cool, but if you think about some things rationally, you usually can trim a lot off. ET was mostly just a skill that supplemented their lack of raw healing, but I wouldn't say it's entirely "bad" but it could get added usage in other places, maybe make it a 10 second buff instead of a one time deal. That fits both it's current theme and your idea to bolster their heals. And while Dissipation is still the least favorite of the capstone skills; thank god ED made it useful again, I am all for a healing buff that doesn't lock out part of the SCH kit. Neither WHM nor AST lose any of their kit when they get their buff, regardless of SCH getting it 20 levels earlier.

As for the other healers. I understand the idea for all 3 wanting a rework. Though, I am surprised, even WHM? Isn't this like their best version to date, so I hear. Mostly because of the whole heal/dps issue they don't have as much now. Anyways, the main thing is to consider how a skill would interact/compliment the other healers, not necessarily redoing them as well. Basically, it's trying to find that OP balance that, according to the community SCH has been teetering on since day 1. And giving them some skills that just sound too OP from the start could cause issues. My suggestion is to look at all 3 and look to see what skills have correlations with one another. They dont have to be direct correlations, like the base heals, but sometimes more abstract things, like the lilies, cards, and the faerie.

[CrimsonGunner]

Okay on the setup, that might be where a few things get muddled in your delivery. That's semi why I got confused with ED and Aetherflow.

As for Libra you aren't wrong in your "description" of what the sill can do, but it's a bit miscalculated, I guess is how I'd put it. Based on what you said, you'd be trying to bolster your own defenses, which falls under the healer/tank umbrella. But a skill that does that would be something to cast on the party, not the enemy. Additionally, while it does do both, what you made was a merged version of Feint and Addle. Unfortunately, with the new BLU Condensed Libra added, it shows SE is more inclined to have it focus on offense than defense. But I wont say just forget it, I'd just suggest finding another way of implementing the skill.

As for ED and Aetherflow, the current system is best, sorry to say. With your system the stacks might become too commonplace, and management would be almost nonexistent. SMN doesn't need to manage stacks, but SCH does. Plus, there is no skill to burn excess stacks. That's part of the reason SCH was given back ED in the first place. Your system sounds alright in theory. But since both grant stacks, you'll wind up having more than you'll need once the skill is off CD. And to use a stack on an unnecessary heal is just bad. It would be better if one did damage and restored MP, but at that point it's the same as the current system, just different CDs.

well i changed libra,i think it might be a good workaround.

as for ED point and stack managements,its why i gave more skills that use Aetherflow stacks like fester and the plans and like you said there are still heals and sacred soil who use stacks.
i thought maybe bring scholar the arcanist bio,miasma fester skill will help burn his stacks during healing downtimes along side using the plans as well but i will think about your points and see about it.

as for ET maybe i could make it as part of plan C effects ,like convert his shields to pure hp instead, i will rethink plan c and might add it.(yea ET effect in plan c makes it feel better at least for me ty ^^)

[Eloah]

Ah right, I forgot you but fester back in, and I didn't see the Plan usage. That might actually be okay then for stacks. But it would be easier to see the full effects of the idea once the skills are laid out better to understand.

The Libra change seems a bit better. Might be something akin to a Synestry buff, but for damage. That's not so bad. Though by default, it would be used on tanks mostly.

[inhaledcorn]

So, if I'm looking at this correctly: You made Embrace more clunky, fairy skills cost SCH MP, brought back Rouse, Virus, and HW Cleric Stance, and gave them Collective Unconsciousness.

The best part of the fairy is that it costs the SCH 0 MP after it's summoned. Removing that removes one of the best parts of the SCH. Moving Fey's Blessing down is, honestly, fine, but SCH's problem with the fairy is that it's passive healing is so strong at lower levels, SCH never needs to heal. I mean, if you made it so that Embrace behaved more like the Regens of the other jobs, fine, it brings SCH more in line with the other healers, but then you're removing the pet aspect from the job.

[CrimsonGunner]

Ah right, I forgot you but fester back in, and I didn't see the Plan usage.

well i am not sure what you meant by seeing the plan usage but if you want an example i thought like for an opener u start with ED gain stacks ->plan B ->set bio and miasma dots and then fester/broil when u can.
or when you put chain ,you can pop plan A/B for burst time depending on the situation.

let me know if now the layout is better.

So, if I'm looking at this correctly: You made Embrace more clunky, fairy skills cost SCH MP, brought back Rouse, Virus, and HW Cleric Stance, and gave them Collective Unconsciousness.

The best part of the fairy is that it costs the SCH 0 MP after it's summoned. Removing that removes one of the best parts of the SCH. Moving Fey's Blessing down is, honestly, fine, but SCH's problem with the fairy is that it's passive healing is so strong at lower levels, SCH never needs to heal. I mean, if you made it so that Embrace behaved more like the Regens of the other jobs, fine, it brings SCH more in line with the other healers, but then you're removing the pet aspect from the job.

i doubt anything i thought could made the fairy any more clunky then SE made it to be at SHB XD.

joking aside,i haven't changed embrace that much ,the only change is that you can pick who the fairy can focus on instead of her casting it on wild people where she doesn't need to.

as for 0 MP Cost,the only 2 skills that have mp cost are embrace and fey blessing ,the rest dont have any mp consumption.
fey wind consumes the fairy gauge,whispering dawn,consolation,fey illuminate are still the same and don't need any mp so that aspect is still rather fine i think.

as for giving them back old skills,i guess rouse and light blessing are identical but it also can be compared to AST horoscope or Plenary Indulgence in that regard since it gives extra healing when using certain skills(in this case ,when the fairy casts her spells) .
also i don't see anything wrong with giving skills that are similar in execution but different in how they worked. divine intervention might work like collective unconsciousness cause its basically a channeled skill which wouldn't make any different from any channeled skill since u need to stand still for it but unlike CU,it doesn't reduce damage in fact it boost it and his buffs don't stay after it got canceled.
also their requirements and CD are different as well since u need to fill the fairy gauge and also call upon seraph to use it.
the thing i could say about it is that i gave scholar a channeling skill like AST has CU but other then that i don't see anything similar beyond that.

i don't see anything wrong with the ideas of the old skills they removed tbh,i think they have quite a fun element in them including stances.again this how i saw it.

[Eloah]

well i am not sure what you meant by seeing the plan usage but if you want an example i thought like for an opener u start with ED gain stacks ->plan B ->set bio and miasma dots and then fester/broil when u can.
or when you put chain ,you can pop plan A/B for burst time depending on the situation.

let me know if now the layout is better.



i doubt anything i thought could made the fairy any more clunky then SE made it to be at SHB XD.

joking aside,i haven't changed embrace that much ,the only change is that you can pick who the fairy can focus on instead of her casting it on wild people where she doesn't need to.

as for 0 MP Cost,the only 2 skills that have mp cost are embrace and fey blessing ,the rest dont have any mp consumption.
fey wind consumes the fairy gauge,whispering dawn,consolation,fey illuminate are still the same and don't need any mp so that aspect is still rather fine i think.

as for giving them back old skills,i guess rouse and light blessing are identical but it also can be compared to AST horoscope or Plenary Indulgence in that regard since it gives extra healing when using certain skills(in this case ,when the fairy casts her spells) .
also i don't see anything wrong with giving skills that are similar in execution but different in how they worked. divine intervention might work like collective unconsciousness cause its basically a channeled skill which wouldn't make any different from any channeled skill since u need to stand still for it but unlike CU,it doesn't reduce damage in fact it boost it and his buffs don't stay after it got canceled.
also their requirements and CD are different as well since u need to fill the fairy gauge and also call upon seraph to use it.
the thing i could say about it is that i gave scholar a channeling skill like AST has CU but other then that i don't see anything similar beyond that.

i don't see anything wrong with the ideas of the old skills they removed tbh,i think they have quite a fun element in them including stances.again this how i saw it.

Sorry for the delay, life and all, and the holidays, grr the holidays.

As for what I meant with the Plans, I was indicating I didnt notice they cost an Aetherflow stack that's all. The layout is still a little clunky, but iys easier to see costs now so that's a plus. When I get a fully free moment I can show you what I mean.

Also I think what Inhaled Corn meant was that Embrace is like the Faerie's auto-attack, so for it to have a cost feels odd. I think the solution is a new Faerie skill that cost MP if at early levels or Fey gauge if it comes later, or if you move the gauge up. The other issue I think is the delay the pets have with skill activation.

I have a few other thoughts too, that I could try to articulate later, but I have to find a way of expressing my thoughts without outright telling you what I would do. Unless you are okay with me showcasing my own thoughts to bounce off of them?

[CrimsonGunner]

Sorry for the delay, life and all, and the holidays, grr the holidays.

As for what I meant with the Plans, I was indicating I didnt notice they cost an Aetherflow stack that's all. The layout is still a little clunky, but iys easier to see costs now so that's a plus. When I get a fully free moment I can show you what I mean.

Also I think what Inhaled Corn meant was that Embrace is like the Faerie's auto-attack, so for it to have a cost feels odd. I think the solution is a new Faerie skill that cost MP if at early levels or Fey gauge if it comes later, or if you move the gauge up. The other issue I think is the delay the pets have with skill activation.

I have a few other thoughts too, that I could try to articulate later, but I have to find a way of expressing my thoughts without outright telling you what I would do. Unless you are okay with me showcasing my own thoughts to bounce off of them?

I am fine with that,show what you thought

[GrimGale]

The "fairy" part of the job is the least interesting to me. Pet management fits well into a Tactitian style of healer, but I am not particularly keen on the Fairy skins or their look. I do think we have already plenty of Fairy skills and we should focus the SCH's disjointed skills kit so as to have them fit properly with each other and ensure a proper rotation of resources that has a build up to a satisfying finish.

I would also like more Stratagem and Libra style skills.

[CrimsonGunner]

The "fairy" part of the job is the least interesting to me. Pet management fits well into a Tactitian style of healer, but I am not particularly keen on the Fairy skins or their look. I do think we have already plenty of Fairy skills and we should focus the SCH's disjointed skills kit so as to have them fit properly with each other and ensure a proper rotation of resources that has a build up to a satisfying finish.

I would also like more Stratagem and Libra style skills.

i agree about the disjointed skills in the kit,SE needs to work on it and make the skills better synced with each other.
about my reword idea comments,can you elaborate/give example on them please also i would love to hear any idea you have to improve SCH