[dev1032] Stamina.Improvement or Step back?

[Zkieve]

Stamina is the entire backbone of the FF14 battle system. Without it the whole thing falls to pieces, as it was the mechanic the whole system was built around. If they add auto attack and remove stamina its a 100% guarantee that all our skills and ws's will be on a much higher cooldown timer, and you'll all be whining about it down the road.

not necessarily.i read your post on the other thread , and the only thin i agree on is on being able to do a burst attack (3-4hits back to back).The rest i dont think is necessarily true.

In FFXIV we wait on stamina/tp/cooldowns, in FFXI we wait on TP/cooldown,for me the choice is simple.
Rotations and cookie cutters builds are in fact, present right now in ffxiv,so im not sure what does it have to do with anythin bout stamina.

Anyways , my point was not auto attack vs stamina, although the thread it did went into that direction.My whole point is as it stands now. stamina does takes away a lot of fun from battle.Its needs to be reworked or removed.Like i said on OP , is a CONSTANT battle against stamina , and not with the enemy . that is something i can live without.

The battle system right now in ffxiv is boring and generic , for many reasons.if stamina is indeed the backbone of it, im pretty sure is the best place to start , to change this.
I know a lot of people enjoy it as it is now, the problem is a huge majority dont.Cant please them all.
Of course this is all my opinion .

[Spuffin]

not necessarily.i read your post on the other thread , and the only thin i agree on is on being able to do a burst attack (3-4hits back to back).The rest i dont think is necessarily true.

In FFXIV we wait on stamina/tp/cooldowns, in FFXI we wait on TP/cooldown,for me the choice is simple.
Rotations and cookie cutters builds are in fact, present right now in ffxiv,so im not sure what does it have to do with anythin bout stamina.

Anyways , my point was not auto attack vs stamina, although the thread it did went into that direction.My whole point is as it stands now. stamina does takes away a lot of fun from battle.Its needs to be reworked or removed.Like i said on OP , is a CONSTANT battle against stamina , and not with the enemy . that is something i can live without.

The battle system right now in ffxiv is boring and generic , for many reasons.if stamina is indeed the backbone of it, im pretty sure is the best place to start , to change this.
I know a lot of people enjoy it as it is now, the problem is a huge majority dont.Cant please them all.
Of course this is all my opinion .

Good read.

[Kam]

In FFXIV we wait on stamina/tp/cooldowns, in FFXI we wait on TP/cooldown,for me the choice is simple.
Rotations and cookie cutters builds are in fact, present right now in ffxiv,so im not sure what does it have to do with anythin bout stamina.

Anyways , my point was not auto attack vs stamina, although the thread it did went into that direction.My whole point is as it stands now. stamina does takes away a lot of fun from battle.Its needs to be reworked or removed.Like i said on OP , is a CONSTANT battle against stamina , and not with the enemy . that is something i can live without.

The battle system right now in ffxiv is boring and generic , for many reasons.if stamina is indeed the backbone of it, im pretty sure is the best place to start , to change this.
I know a lot of people enjoy it as it is now, the problem is a huge majority dont.Cant please them all.
Of course this is all my opinion .

I agree, as it stands, stanima ruins communication in battle, not that i want auto-attack either, due to things like quick-nock being ruined... some balance would be nice, like a toggle system for certain actions.. or a "Semi-gambit" system for people that need to communicate in the (future) endgame lol...

[NoMX]

Actually, I've never met anyone in-game who didn't like the stamina system. I never heard people moan about it til the official forums popped up.

Actually stanima does not regulate cure timers, or most abilities outside of a WS. no?
(Cus' they are on independant timers.. i.e. you can cure anytime..)

And WSing... doesnt rly matter because it is regulated by TP generation. lol?

Yes Stamina effects cures. Cure and Sacrifice use a small amount of stamina, but they still use some. And no, most of the biggest stamina users are NOT weaponskills. Most weaponskills use the same amount of stamina, though the trend is the lower TP a WS uses, the more stamina it uses. A 1000 tp WS almost always uses half the stamina a 500 TP ws will use. Most job abilities use a high amount of stamina as they are instant, most dont use hp or mp, nor tp... Stamina is their only limiter.

Examples:
Provoke
taunt
Wardrum
Warmonger
Bloodrite
Emulate
Most defensive abilities (rampart, defensive shield skills, cover, etc etc)

All of these skills are governed in use by 2 things... Cooldowns, and stamina. You have to choose when and where to use each, because the stamina use could be used to attack, or defend. It's a matter of fulfilling your role in the party. You either have 5-10 minute cooldowns like you do in FF11, or you have stamina to control how often you can actually chain stuff.

[Spuffin]

You're no good at being a dick. Leave it to the pros.

Stamina is the entire backbone of the FF14 battle system. Without it the whole thing falls to pieces, as it was the mechanic the whole system was built around. If they add auto attack and remove stamina its a 100% guarantee that all our skills and ws's will be on a much higher cooldown timer, and you'll all be whining about it down the road.

he/She was simply quoting you on how you stated that implementing auto attack would increase cool down timers on weapon skills and abilities. Which it wouldnt.... cool down timers are already high and weapon skills would NOT have any cool down timers as they would be limited by TP (FF11 combat system)...

I see what you did, you twisted her words around. You naughty boy you

[Spuffin]

Actually, I've never met anyone in-game who didn't like the stamina system. I never heard people moan about it til the official forums popped up.



Yes Stamina effects cures. Cure and Sacrifice use a small amount of stamina, but they still use some. And no, most of the biggest stamina users are NOT weaponskills. Most weaponskills use the same amount of stamina, though the trend is the lower TP a WS uses, the more stamina it uses. A 1000 tp WS almost always uses half the stamina a 500 TP ws will use. Most job abilities use a high amount of stamina as they are instant, most dont use hp or mp, nor tp... Stamina is their only limiter.

Examples:
Provoke
taunt
Wardrum
Warmonger
Bloodrite
Emulate
Most defensive abilities (rampart, defensive shield skills, cover, etc etc)

All of these skills are governed in use by 2 things... Cooldowns, and stamina. You have to choose when and where to use each, because the stamina use could be used to attack, or defend. It's a matter of fulfilling your role in the party. You either have 5-10 minute cooldowns like you do in FF11, or you have stamina to control how often you can actually chain stuff.

And why would all of these abilities need a massive amount of stamina to exicute when they already have reasonable cool down timers?

[Dreamer]

Stamina is fine. It's the same reason people are asking for auto-attacks, they can't seem to keep themselves from spamming their attacks.

[Zkieve]

Actually, I've never met anyone in-game who didn't like the stamina system. I never heard people moan about it til the official forums popped up.



Yes Stamina effects cures. Cure and Sacrifice use a small amount of stamina, but they still use some. And no, most of the biggest stamina users are NOT weaponskills. Most weaponskills use the same amount of stamina, though the trend is the lower TP a WS uses, the more stamina it uses. A 1000 tp WS almost always uses half the stamina a 500 TP ws will use. Most job abilities use a high amount of stamina as they are instant, most dont use hp or mp, nor tp... Stamina is their only limiter.

Examples:
Provoke
taunt
Wardrum
Warmonger
Bloodrite
Emulate
Most defensive abilities (rampart, defensive shield skills, cover, etc etc)

All of these skills are governed in use by 2 things... Cooldowns, and stamina. You have to choose when and where to use each, because the stamina use could be used to attack, or defend. It's a matter of fulfilling your role in the party. You either have 5-10 minute cooldowns like you do in FF11, or you have stamina to control how often you can actually chain stuff.

my life as a gladiator,
Heavy stab,
provoke,
Guard,
wait for stamina.
defensive move,
phalanx,
heavy stab,
wait for stamina,
no stamina moves for hate,
weapon skill,
guard again, wait for stamina,
phalanx.
defensive move or voke.
wait for stamina.
(more or less)
or ,
x.x..x.....x............x..........x........x...x...x.............x...........x..........x [...= moving my cursor(or waiting for stamina to go over half it to have enough to toss a voke on a surprise agro/link) over to the next skill while waiting for stamina]

Dont get me wrong i gotten used to it, but personally i think its not engaging enough.if you get surprised,hell how many times i have been left there watching the mob attack a mage and just stand there looking at it because i did not had stamina.I have to keep stamina above half to be able to react fast enough with surprises.In before you say you are a bad tank, surprises happens, surprises are fun.
Stamina limits what you can do when shit hits the fan.
Also no1 is moaning ,we are having a discussion as to what changes could improve the system .
The current system is terrible , if you have alternatives , ill be happy to hear it.

[NoMX]

And why would all of these abilities need a massive amount of stamina to exicute when they already have reasonable cool down timers?

You're a dense one aren't you? Since you can use any classes skills and there is such a huge variety, stamina is the only REAL limiter. TP and MP come so easily.. they dont limit ANYTHING, in all honesty. I've said this many times but let me break it down to a level even you should be able to understand, little one

Abilities are good!
They are so good that people want to spam the heck out of them!
Without Stamina, you have access to every single jobs abilities in an instant.
You can taunt, then provoke, then wardrum, then warmonger, then sling off aegis boon, throw in an emulate and a chainspell, launch off a random spell instantly, throw up rampart, still precision, cover, sentinel, punishing barbs, blood bath, disorient, and then chain off a couple of attacks and a weapon skill... and guess what... since theres no stamina to slow it down, you did all of this in 5 seconds.

Now you kids have fun, my shows about to come on.

[Spuffin]

my life as a gladiator,
Heavy stab,
provoke,
Guard,
wait for stamina.
defensive move,
phalanx,
heavy stab,
wait for stamina,
no stamina moves for hate,
weapon skill,
guard again, wait for stamina,
phalanx.
defensive move or voke.
wait for stamina.
(more or less)
or ,
x.x..x.....x............x..........x........x...x...x.............x...........x..........x [...= moving my cursor(or waiting for stamina to go over half it to have enough to toss a voke on a surprise agro/link) over to the next skill while waiting for stamina]

Dont get me wrong i gotten used to it, but personally i think its not engaging enough.if you get surprised,hell how many times i have been left there watching the mob attack a mage and just stand there looking at it because i did not had stamina.I have to keep stamina above half to be able to react fast enough with surprises.In before you say you are a bad tank, no surprises happens, surprises are fun.
Also no1 is moaning ,we are having a discussion as to what changes could improve the system .
The current system is terrible , if you have alternatives , ill be happy to hear it.

Lol I hear you...

Mage getting eatin: "QUICK GLADIATOR we need you to pull hate on that add with provoke!!!"

Gladiator: "I cant!!! My provoke is already cooled down but I have to wait for my stamina give me a couple seconds!"