[dev1032] Stamina.Improvement or Step back?

[Kam]

You're a dense one aren't you? Since you can use any classes skills and there is such a huge variety, stamina is the only REAL limiter. TP and MP come so easily.. they dont limit ANYTHING, in all honesty. I've said this many times but let me break it down to a level even you should be able to understand, little one

Abilities are good!
They are so good that people want to spam the heck out of them!
Without Stamina, you have access to every single jobs abilities in an instant.
You can taunt, then provoke, then wardrum, then warmonger, then sling off aegis boon, throw in an emulate and a chainspell, launch off a random spell instantly, throw up rampart, still precision, cover, sentinel, punishing barbs, blood bath, disorient, and then chain off a couple of attacks and a weapon skill... and guess what... since theres no stamina to slow it down, you did all of this in 5 seconds.

Now you kids have fun, my shows about to come on.

@ NoMX... like i mentioned earlier, in a post you ignored due to your little drama war... that takes time due to affinity with all the right classes... limitations.. eh?

[NoMX]

@ NoMX... like i mentioned earlier, in a post you ignored due to your little drama war... that takes time due to affinity with all the right classes... limitations.. eh?

Time? They're all instant casts... and most of them arent even affected by affinity strength wise, affinity only affects the duration and cooldown of most of those abilities, not the strength of them. They're also all pretty low-rank abilities. Any tank should have them all... Well, chainspell isnt necessary.

[Zkieve]

Actually, I've never met anyone in-game who didn't like the stamina system. I never heard people moan about it til the official forums popped up.



Yes Stamina effects cures. Cure and Sacrifice use a small amount of stamina, but they still use some. And no, most of the biggest stamina users are NOT weaponskills. Most weaponskills use the same amount of stamina, though the trend is the lower TP a WS uses, the more stamina it uses. A 1000 tp WS almost always uses half the stamina a 500 TP ws will use. Most job abilities use a high amount of stamina as they are instant, most dont use hp or mp, nor tp... Stamina is their only limiter.

Examples:
Provoke
taunt
Wardrum
Warmonger
Bloodrite
Emulate
Most defensive abilities (rampart, defensive shield skills, cover, etc etc)

All of these skills are governed in use by 2 things... Cooldowns, and stamina. You have to choose when and where to use each, because the stamina use could be used to attack, or defend. It's a matter of fulfilling your role in the party. You either have 5-10 minute cooldowns like you do in FF11, or you have stamina to control how often you can actually chain stuff.

my life as a gladiator,
Heavy stab,
provoke,
Guard,
wait for stamina.
defensive move,
phalanx,
heavy stab,
wait for stamina,
no stamina moves for hate,
weapon skill,
guard again, wait for stamina,
phalanx.
defensive move or voke.
wait for stamina.
(more or less)
or ,
x.x..x.....x............x..........x........x...x...x.............x...........x..........x [...= moving my cursor(or waiting for stamina to go over half it to have enough to toss a voke on a surprise agro/link) over to the next skill while waiting for stamina]

Dont get me wrong i gotten used to it, but personally i think its not engaging enough.if you get surprised,hell how many times i have been left there watching the mob attack a mage and just stand there looking at it because i did not had stamina.I have to keep stamina above half to be able to react fast enough with surprises.In before you say you are a bad tank, surprises happens, surprises are fun.
Stamina limits what you can do when shit hits the fan.
Also no1 is moaning ,we are having a discussion as to what changes could improve the system .
The current system is terrible , if you have alternatives , ill be happy to hear it.

[Spuffin]

my life as a gladiator,
Heavy stab,
provoke,
Guard,
wait for stamina.
defensive move,
phalanx,
heavy stab,
wait for stamina,
no stamina moves for hate,
weapon skill,
guard again, wait for stamina,
phalanx.
defensive move or voke.
wait for stamina.
(more or less)
or ,
x.x..x.....x............x..........x........x...x...x.............x...........x..........x [...= moving my cursor(or waiting for stamina to go over half it to have enough to toss a voke on a surprise agro/link) over to the next skill while waiting for stamina]

Dont get me wrong i gotten used to it, but personally i think its not engaging enough.if you get surprised,hell how many times i have been left there watching the mob attack a mage and just stand there looking at it because i did not had stamina.I have to keep stamina above half to be able to react fast enough with surprises.In before you say you are a bad tank, no surprises happens, surprises are fun.
Also no1 is moaning ,we are having a discussion as to what changes could improve the system .
The current system is terrible , if you have alternatives , ill be happy to hear it.

Lol I hear you...

Mage getting eatin: "QUICK GLADIATOR we need you to pull hate on that add with provoke!!!"

Gladiator: "I cant!!! My provoke is already cooled down but I have to wait for my stamina give me a couple seconds!"

[NoMX]

Lol I hear you...

Mage getting eatin: "QUICK GLADIATOR we need you to pull hate on that add with provoke!!!"

Gladiator: "I cant!!! My provoke is already cooled down but I have to wait for my stamina give me a couple seconds!"

Wow, some fail glad! Shouldn't have lost hate in the first place... And if he did, he shoulda used raging strike, ferocity, and hawk's eye to get agro back without using stamina.

[Spuffin]

Wow, some fail glad! Shouldn't have lost hate in the first place... And if he did, he shoulda used raging strike, ferocity, and hawk's eye to get agro back without using stamina.

Now your'e just being silly.

A. you cant pull hate on a mob that has been agroed.

B. you would have to use a taunt.

C. that is why I made the dialogge so it was easy to understand the issue at hand

[Kam]

well zkieve, the hate system is so poor at the moment there is no reason to call anyone on negative game-play... its just a under-developed system that everyone is learning. and as for NoMX, thanks for enlightening meh on the current stanima system, i've been totally underwhelmed by it so far, ive just payed attention to the simple things, and as ive only ranked archer to 45, ive not had to deal with any of those issues unlike mages and tanks it seems.. :/

if anything, it sounds like archer is the most balanced class for the current battle system as far as "timing" and "involvement" is concerned.

[Zkieve]

well zkieve, the hate system is so poor at the moment there is no reason to call anyone on negative game-play... its just a under-developed system that everyone is learning. and as for NoMX, thanks for enlightening meh on the current stanima system, i've been totally underwhelmed by it so far, ive just payed attention to the simple things, and ranker archer to 45, ive not had to deal with any of those issues unlike mages and tanks :/

tanks have it really bad , everything but phalanx cost half the stamina bar.While i LOVE guard mechanics.it eats stamina to much.
edit , anyways , way past my bed time . thanks for the good read people.

[Spuffin]

tanks have it really bad , everything but phalanx cost half the stamina bar.While i LOVE guard mechanics.it eats stamina to much.
edit , anyways , way past my bed time . thanks for the good read people.

Once again... Cumbersome and inconvenient. Stamina limits the players skill.

FF11's battle system is the same as WoW or Aion. The ability to use ANY ability at will with the limit of cooldowns. All FF14 did was add a stamina bar ontop of that to limit how many abilities a player can use per min.

Current MMOs have auto attacking + ability spamming working at the same time. This creates fast and player friendly game play.

FF14 decided to be different and add this excuse of a stamina system.

Removing the stamina system and adding auto attack and possibly keeping the armory system allowing us to spam any and all abilities would only resort in them increasing the mobs HP pool...

[Dreamer]

Stamina is fine. It's the same reason people are asking for auto-attacks, they can't seem to keep themselves from spamming their attacks.