[dev1032] Stamina.Improvement or Step back?

[Spuffin]

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

See below:



It's not even just about MMO's... It's about any RPG game... And even any FPS/RTS game out there. If there's a boss in an FPS game, 9/10 times there's a "shoot this part of the body with this weapon" mechanic... Which ultimately is the same concept. Falling into patterns.

Thank you captain obvious.

[Zkieve]

There are skills out that go all the way to 99 in the dats currently. Example:
http://ffxiv.yg.com/skill/blood-rite-iii?id=28464

And yea... Even RDM fell victim to mindless repetition in party-play on 11. Cure... Cure... Debuff... Haste... Refresh.. Cure some more. Every MMO out there is all about spamming a few choice abilities/spells. It sucks, but it's true. I played every job except lolpup, so I'm not talking from an unexperienced point of view here. The battle mechanics on 11 encouraged the same simple rotations you see on games like WoW. You use the same abilities repeatedly until the boss dies.

I understand that , but it isnt really different currently in 14,,,,
What does stamina have to do with this?.a player not doing anythin and another one pressing 1111111111 only is pretty much the same , imo.

[NoMX]

I understand that , but it isnt really different currently in 14,,,,
What does stamina have to do with this?.a player not doing anythin and another one pressing 1111111111 only is pretty much the same , imo.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-need-STAMINA

Thank you captain obvious.

Nice one. I think I heard that somewhere before, recently.

[Zkieve]

I sure hope they don't do away with stamina. The stamina bar and lack of auto attack is the thing i like best about FF14's battle system. I honestly found 11's battle system to be the most boring part when i played a DD job... Because all you do is sit and wait as you build tp... then use your buff macros, then your ws macro... then sit and wait... then do it again... then sit and wait... then sit and wait... and wait... and wait... get the point? It was boring. Lol

Thankfully i was Nin/Drk tank as my main job, so i didn't have to "sit and wait" as often as DD classes did. I actually had stuff to do.

Also, the spell haste was dat mined. It's in the game, sort of... But it's a con spell for like r60-99 or so.

Um everyone have their own views, but when i played i never was" bored" to say it some way with any job.This game have a lot 11 didnt had so i dont see the lack of player interactions a big reason really.I can speak for most jobs as i had them all over 66 (whent for maat´s cap) but the whitegate expansion ones.the only dds that would do this would be , well really bad dds.Not really diferent from some1 just spaming 11111 currently on 14.
is what i think anyways.

[elreed]

the way i see it, is that they could keep stamina even having auto attack, auto attack would be for normal damage and TP generation, stamina for abbilities of your class and TP for weapon skills of your weapon, i dont think theres gonna be any trouble at all doing that,

as an archer i like the system as it is because i can choose wich action i want to do everytime, i dont find the system spamming, in the other hand with a close melee class like gladiator you end up spaming same action a few times making it a little anoying,

making it short the system works for a few classes and not for others, i would aprove any change but keeping stamina, the auto attack feature would help weapons to be really different from each other like an elm velocity bow being faster than an ash longbow, but having the second one more range, i dont know feel free to add ideas.

[Kam]

the way i see it, is that they could keep stamina even having auto attack, auto attack would be for normal damage and TP generation, stamina for abbilities of your class and TP for weapon skills of your weapon, i dont think theres gonna be any trouble at all doing that,

as an archer i like the system as it is because i can choose wich action i want to do everytime, i dont find the system spamming, in the other hand with a close melee class like gladiator you end up spaming same action a few times making it a little anoying,

making it short the system works for a few classes and not for others, i would aprove any change but keeping stamina, the auto attack feature would help weapons to be really different from each other like an elm velocity bow being faster than an ash longbow, but having the second one more range, i dont know feel free to add ideas.

and this is why the JP forums talk about a "gambit" system like ff12... I wouldnt like that personally though...

[NoMX]

Actually, I've never met anyone in-game who didn't like the stamina system. I never heard people moan about it til the official forums popped up.

Actually stanima does not regulate cure timers, or most abilities outside of a WS. no?
(Cus' they are on independant timers.. i.e. you can cure anytime..)

And WSing... doesnt rly matter because it is regulated by TP generation. lol?

Yes Stamina effects cures. Cure and Sacrifice use a small amount of stamina, but they still use some. And no, most of the biggest stamina users are NOT weaponskills. Most weaponskills use the same amount of stamina, though the trend is the lower TP a WS uses, the more stamina it uses. A 1000 tp WS almost always uses half the stamina a 500 TP ws will use. Most job abilities use a high amount of stamina as they are instant, most dont use hp or mp, nor tp... Stamina is their only limiter.

Examples:
Provoke
taunt
Wardrum
Warmonger
Bloodrite
Emulate
Most defensive abilities (rampart, defensive shield skills, cover, etc etc)

All of these skills are governed in use by 2 things... Cooldowns, and stamina. You have to choose when and where to use each, because the stamina use could be used to attack, or defend. It's a matter of fulfilling your role in the party. You either have 5-10 minute cooldowns like you do in FF11, or you have stamina to control how often you can actually chain stuff.

[Spuffin]

Actually, I've never met anyone in-game who didn't like the stamina system. I never heard people moan about it til the official forums popped up.



Yes Stamina effects cures. Cure and Sacrifice use a small amount of stamina, but they still use some. And no, most of the biggest stamina users are NOT weaponskills. Most weaponskills use the same amount of stamina, though the trend is the lower TP a WS uses, the more stamina it uses. A 1000 tp WS almost always uses half the stamina a 500 TP ws will use. Most job abilities use a high amount of stamina as they are instant, most dont use hp or mp, nor tp... Stamina is their only limiter.

Examples:
Provoke
taunt
Wardrum
Warmonger
Bloodrite
Emulate
Most defensive abilities (rampart, defensive shield skills, cover, etc etc)

All of these skills are governed in use by 2 things... Cooldowns, and stamina. You have to choose when and where to use each, because the stamina use could be used to attack, or defend. It's a matter of fulfilling your role in the party. You either have 5-10 minute cooldowns like you do in FF11, or you have stamina to control how often you can actually chain stuff.

And why would all of these abilities need a massive amount of stamina to exicute when they already have reasonable cool down timers?

[NoMX]

And why would all of these abilities need a massive amount of stamina to exicute when they already have reasonable cool down timers?

You're a dense one aren't you? Since you can use any classes skills and there is such a huge variety, stamina is the only REAL limiter. TP and MP come so easily.. they dont limit ANYTHING, in all honesty. I've said this many times but let me break it down to a level even you should be able to understand, little one

Abilities are good!
They are so good that people want to spam the heck out of them!
Without Stamina, you have access to every single jobs abilities in an instant.
You can taunt, then provoke, then wardrum, then warmonger, then sling off aegis boon, throw in an emulate and a chainspell, launch off a random spell instantly, throw up rampart, still precision, cover, sentinel, punishing barbs, blood bath, disorient, and then chain off a couple of attacks and a weapon skill... and guess what... since theres no stamina to slow it down, you did all of this in 5 seconds.

Now you kids have fun, my shows about to come on.

[Spuffin]

You're a dense one aren't you? Since you can use any classes skills and there is such a huge variety, stamina is the only REAL limiter. TP and MP come so easily.. they dont limit ANYTHING, in all honesty. I've said this many times but let me break it down to a level even you should be able to understand, little one

Abilities are good!
They are so good that people want to spam the heck out of them!
Without Stamina, you have access to every single jobs abilities in an instant.
You can taunt, then provoke, then wardrum, then warmonger, then sling off aegis boon, throw in an emulate and a chainspell, launch off a random spell instantly, throw up rampart, still precision, cover, sentinel, punishing barbs, blood bath, disorient, and then chain off a couple of attacks and a weapon skill... and guess what... since theres no stamina to slow it down, you did all of this in 5 seconds.

Now you kids have fun, my shows about to come on.

Which is why they are revamping the battle system and armory system. There is a High chance that stamina will be no more and ability sharing as it is now is going to be EXTREMELY limited in terms of FF11's sub jobs. Especially when they said "We are thinking of adding auto attack" If they said that and only that in terms of auto attack then it's more than likely going to be there.