What BLU got this Patch

[LeoLupinos]

Yeah no, roulletes and such dont really have such delicate balance, I already regularly do those with 4 dps or 4 tanks and still clear them pretty fast, theyre so easy I doubt a broken class would make too much difference. And tank BLU is pathetic, it does next to no damage and has to rely on diamondback to survive, a tanks job is not to just hold aggro and not die, its to lay out some damage too

You know that BLU tank can disable Might Guard whenever the aggro is ok, right?

[ReiMakoto]

You know that BLU tank can disable Might Guard whenever the aggro is ok, right?

I do, their damage when tanking bosses is still very low despite that and against trash its pretty good, but again so are the other tanks.

[Callinon]

If we take in the lucky bancho numbers than you are the minority (and that does not even show if people enjoyed it, just that they have leveled it to 50). Seemingly SE also had no trust in that content since they now put one mount (which was wanted by quite some people), an emote and a minion behind it. Something which is often done to incentive the people to play it.

The thing is: If they had gone the way a lot of us wanted to (normal job+ being able to gather all the skills extra on top of that) you still would have been able to have fun with it. Just that then others might also have fun with it too..I mean its not like all tank runs, all healer runs, all job x runs exist already, so having an all blue run is nothing special.

That's not exactly ironclad logic there as beast tribes have a nearly identical reward structure and require a great deal more time investment to reach the pay off than blue mage does.

I also got a different impression from reading Lucky Bancho's numbers. It looks to me as if a large majority of people who picked up BLU leveled it to 50 (the level cap at the time of the census) as compared with the percentage of players who leveled say.. NIN.. to 80 (the level cap at the time of the census).

BLU: 4635 players on Carbuncle reaching at least level 30, 2981 of them reaching level 50 for a level cap rate of about 64%
NIN: 6418 players on Carbuncle reaching at least level 30, 1468 of them reaching level 80 for a level cap rate of about 23%

Now it's possible that Carbuncle is an outlier server. I didn't check all of them, so my reading here should not be taken as conclusive. But if we're talking about percentages of people reaching level cap as an indicator for enjoyment of a job, then it looks to me like BLU did pretty well.

Ok that all out of the way: would I have preferred BLU be a normal job that could do normal job things yet still retain its spell hunting aspect? Absolutely. Blue mage is one of my favorite jobs across the entire franchise, and it was done particularly well in FFXI where it was a normal job that did normal job things and retained its spell hunting aspect. But that's not what they did with the FFXIV version. And that's ok. It's a different game. I'm enjoying it for what it is, and I'm not going to sit here and sulk over it not being something else.

[Shougun]

That's not exactly ironclad logic there as beast tribes have a nearly identical reward structure and require a great deal more time investment to reach the pay off than blue mage does.

I also got a different impression from reading Lucky Bancho's numbers. It looks to me as if a large majority of people who picked up BLU leveled it to 50 (the level cap at the time of the census) as compared with the percentage of players who leveled say.. NIN.. to 80 (the level cap at the time of the census).

BLU: 4635 players on Carbuncle reaching at least level 30, 2981 of them reaching level 50 for a level cap rate of about 64%
NIN: 6418 players on Carbuncle reaching at least level 30, 1468 of them reaching level 80 for a level cap rate of about 23%

Now it's possible that Carbuncle is an outlier server. I didn't check all of them, so my reading here should not be taken as conclusive. But if we're talking about percentages of people reaching level cap as an indicator for enjoyment of a job, then it looks to me like BLU did pretty well.

Ok that all out of the way: would I have preferred BLU be a normal job that could do normal job things yet still retain its spell hunting aspect? Absolutely. Blue mage is one of my favorite jobs across the entire franchise, and it was done particularly well in FFXI where it was a normal job that did normal job things and retained its spell hunting aspect. But that's not what they did with the FFXIV version. And that's ok. It's a different game. I'm enjoying it for what it is, and I'm not going to sit here and sulk over it not being something else.

I don't know if that data is on the website but I would think it a point of logical failure if SE bases the success on leveling blue mage, especially as it's so easy to level. Honestly I'd say for any job but that's partly because I level all the jobs (slowly lol) and that doesn't mean I love them all equally.

I'd say it would be based on the number of people who continue to play it past hype week, not sure how you'd get that info though...

[Alleo]

That's not exactly ironclad logic there as beast tribes have a nearly identical reward structure and require a great deal more time investment to reach the pay off than blue mage does.

I also got a different impression from reading Lucky Bancho's numbers. It looks to me as if a large majority of people who picked up BLU leveled it to 50 (the level cap at the time of the census) as compared with the percentage of players who leveled say.. NIN.. to 80 (the level cap at the time of the census).

And these incentives for the beast tribes are also probably in there so that people even do them. Just like Eureka has massive amount of items behind it and we do know from people on the forum that some only went through there to get these rewards. This is my point. Before that blue was at least only his own thing, but suddenly they put these rewards (the morbol being requested for quite some time) behind it. Why? If the niche side content is fun enough for those that want it, why would they need something like that? Maybe because it was not used as much as they wanted to. Or they feared that maybe people would not do it if there is nothing at the end.

Why also compare a normal job, which is only one in a whole line of different jobs, to something that is bascially side content? Blue is not normal in that regard. You could have compared them if both had been normal jobs and the question would be if blue is used more or less like the rest. But he is not a normal job. Blue is side content released at a time with not much to do. So of course out of curiosity (being the first limited after all) people might simply try it out even if they normally dont level other jobs. And its even really easy to level that one. (Also you compare a lvl 80 job which might have needed to play through whole expansions and many hours, to a job at lvl 50 which is done in hours.)

My point with the lucky bancho was: Only half of the people that actively played the game were even interested in starting the job. And of those that did not even half of them reached lvl 50. Not sure how you got that the majority of it who picked it up got it to 50. 46.3% (EU) started it, 17.8% (EU) reached 50. That is not even half of the people. So the majority that unlocked the job did not even play it to max level. Only the JP players had at least half of those that unlocked it also getting it to 50, yet they are known to try out everything and even there quite a few people did not play it further. (With a job that can be easily leveled to max in a few hours). That means only like 17.8% even were able to test out the exclusive new content for Blue. So yes 17.8% is the minority of the playerbase. Which can be fine if that is what SE wanted to have with this. (Even though they probably have no idea how many of those 17.8% in the EU even enjoyed it) But seemingly they now put in incentives for people to play it. And the completely new content (carneval) barely got any updates while most of it was put into a party finder to do old content..

I don't know if that data is on the website but I would think it a point of logical failure if SE bases the success on leveling blue mage, especially as it's so easy to level. Honestly I'd say for any job but that's partly because I level all the jobs (slowly lol) and that doesn't mean I love them all equally.

I'd say it would be based on the number of people who continue to play it past hype week, not sure how you'd get that info though...

That too is a problem. How do they read their data? Best would be to sent an ingame survey to anyone and question them about it. Because if something is new and people have not much to do, they often just try it out. And if you can level that new content to max level in a few hours and most drop it afterwards, its not really that successfull imo.

[hynaku]

They got there own job base mount the malboro mount.

[Shougun]

That too is a problem. How do they read their data? Best would be to sent an ingame survey to anyone and question them about it. Because if something is new and people have not much to do, they often just try it out. And if you can level that new content to max level in a few hours and most drop it afterwards, its not really that successfull imo.

Yeah and I would say exceptionally so since their design style means that people can easily level it but not easily enjoy it, in the future I mean.

Lets say two months from now, when there is like 1 blue PF going for a spell you don't need or even apply for as a new player. You're so out of luck it's not even funny. Your OP primal spells or whatever else have you that you should get, have fun getting those 10 skills with your 5% drop rate because few want to join and you have that huge spam fest or beg for party scenario multiple times (some of them not being solo-able with the power made available to blue mage, especially when those are the skills that'd make you more powerful in the first place but you can't get them). The rotations people think have improved blue mage, they're going to be exceptionally hard to obtain- almost assuring future players a lesser experience. Personally while I see rotations coming about now I don't think they're more interesting than regular jobs (their patterns), they're just full of some shiny big name spells and a bit wonkier effects than usual but the rotation can be boiled down to a similar and a bit simpler than other current jobs (the buff windows, core damage rotation, ogcd, etc, except here you'll not even have that if you don't get in during train / have someone help you).

Which is why I said in another post I believe people are having fun but I don't think their fun is exclusive really to this version as much as they just wanted to do something a bit different from what they were already doing, there are a lot of ways that could and can happen (and not to discount their fun but that their fun could have been maintained through a number of other measures, at least most of the people I've read for the given reasons they've said). In that I suppose I feel they've not done enough though that's another post lol (like if they're limited for that classic true to monster form, why is my fire angon not fire angon or my angel whisper not actually angel whisper).

Almost cherry on top joke on the reason it was limited (SE didn't want it to be excluded) is if you wanted to do content related to blue, or if there is higher level skills in later dungeons, people are not going to want to have you in their group unless you have x y z skills. "I can't get a group for primal / other instanced skills, and I've failed to learn one 200 times so far, so can I just come with you guys with 220 potency standard and a buff please?", of course some groups will be fine with that but clearly the person is going to be the rock in the group and therefore naturally many PF will not be fine with a giant weight. The amount of irony in blue mage...

In other words people could easily get it to 50, or 60, due to the greatly accelerated exp and still feel a range of dislike, missed opportunity, wishful thinking of change, or even hate for the job- so if they determine success from level then I think they're going to greatly inflate their own numbers (good for PR, bad data though).

[Callinon]

I don't know if that data is on the website but I would think it a point of logical failure if SE bases the success on leveling blue mage, especially as it's so easy to level. Honestly I'd say for any job but that's partly because I level all the jobs (slowly lol) and that doesn't mean I love them all equally.

I'd say it would be based on the number of people who continue to play it past hype week, not sure how you'd get that info though...

Yeah I don't think it's reasonable to base enjoyment on leveling either. But that's what was presented to me by the other poster, so that's what I responded to.

For instance I level every job. I do not enjoy them all equally. Hell up until Shadowbringers, I didn't enjoy MCH at all, but I leveled it because otherwise it'd screw up my list.

And these incentives for the beast tribes are also probably in there so that people even do them.

The fact is neither you nor I can know that because there's:
A: never been a time when beast tribes didn't have rewards behind them and
B: we don't have the data for engagement on that content.

I think it's safe to assume the beast tribes do well enough on engagement since SE keeps doing them. But my point was that the reward structure for BLU feels pretty similar, so I felt it was a fair comparison.

Before that blue was at least only his own thing, but suddenly they put these rewards (the morbol being requested for quite some time) behind it. Why? If the niche side content is fun enough for those that want it, why would they need something like that?

I do feel like BLU's side content needed some more rewards behind it, because otherwise once you were done with the spell collecting you pretty much just had nothing to work towards. If you liked the carnivale then great, but even that has a pretty short shelf life. Adding some rewards (that you can also work towards in other ways if BLU really just does not appeal to you) helps add some longevity to the content it otherwise demonstrably did not have.

Maybe because it was not used as much as they wanted to. Or they feared that maybe people would not do it if there is nothing at the end.

I mean, if we're being honest here... that's everything. MMO players categorically WILL NOT grind something if they don't think the reward is worth the time investment. It barely even matters how much fun the content itself is in this context.

Why also compare a normal job, which is only one in a whole line of different jobs, to something that is bascially side content? Blue is not normal in that regard. You could have compared them if both had been normal jobs and the question would be if blue is used more or less like the rest. But he is not a normal job.

Because you did. No, it's obviously not a fair comparison. There's a huge difference between BLU and other combat jobs. But you cited Lucky Bancho's numbers as supporting evidence that BLU was unpopular and that I was in the minority of BLU players. If it wasn't a fair comparison when I did it, it also wasn't when you did it.

Blue is side content released at a time with not much to do. So of course out of curiosity (being the first limited after all) people might simply try it out even if they normally dont level other jobs. And its even really easy to level that one. (Also you compare a lvl 80 job which might have needed to play through whole expansions and many hours, to a job at lvl 50 which is done in hours.)

Yep, I went 50 to 60 and gained all the spells (minus Angel Feather, still working on that) in a day. When the job was released it took me a week to get to level cap and gain all the spells. It's definitely side content. But I think it's enjoyable side content.

My point with the lucky bancho was: Only half of the people that actively played the game were even interested in starting the job.

I haven't dug into the numbers that deeply but that doesn't feel like a fair conclusion to me. Lucky Bancho doesn't seem to start recording that until a job is above level 30. Since BLU starts at 1, we have actually no idea how many people picked up the job, leveled to, say, 20 and then abandoned it. Those are people that definitely STARTED the job, they just didn't go very far with it.

And of those that did not even half of them reached lvl 50. Not sure how you got that the majority of it who picked it up got it to 50. 46.3% (EU) started it, 17.8% (EU) reached 50.

Because my percentages were based on the people playing the job, not the overall playerbase as a whole. I can go back and do the same thing for NIN if you'd like though. I imagine the pie chart for any given job is probably pretty slim if you're going to factor it over the entire playerbase.

That too is a problem. How do they read their data?

A reasonable concern here and, frankly, reason enough that the Lucky Bancho numbers should not be relied upon too heavily. You and I simply don't have the data needed to draw any conclusions here.

[Alleo]

Because you did. No, it's obviously not a fair comparison. There's a huge difference between BLU and other combat jobs. But you cited Lucky Bancho's numbers as supporting evidence that BLU was unpopular and that I was in the minority of BLU players. If it wasn't a fair comparison when I did it, it also wasn't when you did it.

Yep, I went 50 to 60 and gained all the spells (minus Angel Feather, still working on that) in a day. When the job was released it took me a week to get to level cap and gain all the spells. It's definitely side content. But I think it's enjoyable side content.

I haven't dug into the numbers that deeply but that doesn't feel like a fair conclusion to me. Lucky Bancho doesn't seem to start recording that until a job is above level 30. Since BLU starts at 1, we have actually no idea how many people picked up the job, leveled to, say, 20 and then abandoned it. Those are people that definitely STARTED the job, they just didn't go very far with it.

Because my percentages were based on the people playing the job, not the overall playerbase as a whole. I can go back and do the same thing for NIN if you'd like though. I imagine the pie chart for any given job is probably pretty slim if you're going to factor it over the entire playerbase.

It does not matter if lucky bancho started it at lvl 1 or later. It still shows that for EU and NA not even 20% of the active playerbase brought it to lvl50. That means 80% have not got it to max level at all. (At that time of course) And this is different to other jobs because these other jobs are there to give us choices. They are not there to be the most played. So it does not matter that Ninja is less played than another job because these jobs exist for us to play content.

Blue is the content. Thus should be seen as that. And as for content at the time of the lucky bancho, 80% of the NA and EU playerbase (and over 70% of the JP) did not even do the basic of it, which is bringing it up to lvl 50. You say that we dont have an idea how many played it for a bit and abandoned it but this is still not positive. It still means that people did not find joy with it.

So yes you are still the minority. (I am too btw, since I got it to lvl 50 but did not enjoy it at all) Just like raiders are in the minority in this game. Does not automatically make the niche you like bad and its fine if you have fun with it. But since its only done for a minority and needs to be updated constantly, it just means that for some of us this is simply a waste of time and ressources. Which is what the poster even said (and he even went out of his way and said that its a waste of his time)

Its just like Eureka. I also believe that too much was put into something that is played so little. Niche is fine but it should also not take too much ressources either. Thats why content like Ultima is using mostly reused stuff. And seeing how Yoshida said how hard it is to balance these jobs and that blue still has to have some kind of balance while still getting all these skills, animations and stuff..well for me this is way too much work into something that will probably be death quite fast.

[Eloah]

Okay, so while I wont say BLU is everything I want it to be, I have to backtrack a little on what I said. On day one, I tried it a little and it felt like more of the same. But on day two when a friend joined me and we did some dungeons for spells things felt complete. I am 60 now have 65 spells, even some primal ones, and I am enjoying full BLU parties; I even did Shiva Ex, synced, I never did that.

I wont say BLU is completely redeemed in my eyes, but I will say that I am having a lot more fun now that I am with people. The main issue is that this supposed to be solo content but clearly is meant for groups. I will say certain aspects, like how they cant have more spells in line with the other casters, or a single target of each element, or THAT RAISE, grr.. but I will say after playing with other people, I feel BLU is more complete than it was.