Thoughts on the removal of skills

[Miqutie]

Despite only being on patch 5.1, I already find myself worried for the next expansion. It shouldn't be that way, but I can't help but be afraid of the job changes because of the removal of older skills.

I understand the argument that older abilities need to be cut to make room for new, and hopefully more interesting additions to our jobs, but I have a hard time thinking on what else they can possibly remove from the jobs without them losing what made them what they originally were. I feel like we're starting to see that with Dark Knight-- though that may just be more of a feeling rather than an actuality, and some people might argue that the changes are for the better.

I don't want to be someone blinded with nostalgia, wishing for jobs to always be the way they were and never to evolve unless it's adding onto the job rather than removing and replacing. I'd really like to hear other people's thoughts on this; if you think my fears are misguided or if you're also concerned about how they handle job changes. Thank you ^^

[Rasikko]

You're not alone. I'm concerned right now for the combat system as a whole.

Some skills needed to be merged, but for some reason SE decided to do away with other skills that were very useful. DRK though will always be the one job that got destroyed the most. We're never gonna get the HW DRK back, ever again.

[CrimsonGunner]

you aren't alone with that fear and better example for your fear is all the healers classes.

WHM who got his skills removed from him and some were returned as a role action.
SCH and AST who were pretty much got their skills gutted...
even bard lost his song support aspect only to be brought back at 5.1 after the entire bard community cried because of it.

i think your concern is right and SE actions in the past sure raise an alarm on how they change the jobs.

[Jybril]

I wonder if it would help if some skills were combo'd and then the original
skill was chained. You know like in PvP you use 1 skill, and that
skill changes into a next potential combo? That would be nice.
Sorry if I'm miss-explaining :x

[Xion136]

There's a lot of AOE skills I hear people want, like the Bard's Cone AOE being less liked than the removed circle AOE, or Dragoon losing Ring of Thorns. Honestly, I'd like it if SE asked and got feedback on what skills could/should be removed to make room for others before axing them. I don't mind Rage of Halone turning into Royal Authority myself, but at least at lower levels I do get to enjoy it. But Dragoons can't use the poledance? Sigh.


Also, the blowback when Hagakure was removed. Case in point how much that ability meant to the gameplay...so glad it's back and buffed.

[TwiibieTwuu]

One of the worst parts about loosing skills is loosing the animations. Rip dragoon pole dance and bard backflip.

[Vidu]

One of the worst parts about loosing skills is loosing the animations. Rip dragoon pole dance and bard backflip.

The "bard backflip" is still ingame - it just doesnt deal damage anymore, so you're only using it to dodge now, not as part of your damage-dealing rotation.

On the matter as a whole, though... as someone who mained paladin since ARR I'm "glad" that skills got removed - do I miss some? Absolutly! But at the same time I had a painful 38 or 39 buttons at the end of Stormblood. 3 hotbars completly full with skills - there was no room at all anymore for more, some skills I didnt even keep on my hotbar in the first place (I only had provoke on my hotbar, no room for ultimatum).
While they might not always picked the best skills to remove, I dont see how they can add new skills without having them replace older ones (like ruin->broil) or removing old skills. Its a fine line to walk, but its simply impossible to let us keep every old skill AND add new ones each expansion.
...and I dont want to miss the feeling of getting a new skill and figuring out how to use it best. Personally I wouldnt be happy if the level 90 paladin excatly the same way like the level 80 one, with nothing new added in between.

Would be cool though if they turned old animations for lost skills into emotes that you could unlock by completing the respective jobquest! The animations are already ingame, cant be to difficult to re-release them as emotes...?

[TwiibieTwuu]

The "bard backflip" is still ingame - it just doesnt deal damage anymore,

Nah. There used to be an attack where you would do a backflip while firing a barrage of arrows. Some npcs can still use the attack. Pretty sure Renda-Rae uses it on a cutscene.

[Connor]

I’m still crying over Bard losing Foe Requiem and Wide Volley

[Satarn]

You're not alone. I'm concerned right now for the combat system as a whole.

Some skills needed to be merged, but for some reason SE decided to do away with other skills that were very useful. DRK though will always be the one job that got destroyed the most. We're never gonna get the HW DRK back, ever again.

This, but also - can we address how a whole bunch of "new" Shadowbringers skills are just single target versions of AoE skills, which were already part of SB single target rotations? These additions haven't really added anything to gameplay and simply serve as the very definition of button bloat which SE is supposedly trying to reduce by removing older skills.

For example BLM's Despair and Xenoglossy are pretty much single target Flare and Foul respectively(in case of xeno, one extra difference is that it's an instant cast which is indeed gameplay-altering, but could've easily just been added as a trait to upgrade Foul) and SAM's Hissatsu: Senei is just single target Hissatsu: Guren - they even share a cooldown.