What's wrong with SCH and how I envision a rework

[CrimsonGunner]

SE has shown they want to avoid any sort of complexity with Healer DPS, regardless of what forum ragers cry about. Give SCH and the other two more options for damage dealing, and all of sudden:

“Where’s your Shadowflare?”
“You aren’t refreshing all of your DoTs or you’re clipping too much”
“You aren’t using your DPS skills properly”

You give healers better more intricate tools for dealing damage, and sure it will make things more fun. But it also raises the expectation for Healers to not only DPS, but optimize their DPS efficiently. Granted, myself and many others would enjoy this optimization, but that does not align with SEs current goals.

again read the forums, people want more during downtime or have increased healing uptime which isn't just dps options.people cover all sorts of skills and abilities from the far end of the spectrums.
from all sorts of dps,buffs and debuffs to give for healers so they could be more involved then just be a healing bot that wait for someone to receive an ouchie and lets say thats all healers can do even then the healing downtimes are so low and short that it doesn't justify such approach.it was all covered from giving more skills to healer up until changing encounter and battle designs.

balance is fine among all healers ,we all agree that all 3 deserve to be equal and share the spotlight but we want all 3 to be fun to play as well and not dull with gameplay issues.

[Volkaj]

A few mechanicals quirks, or just my 2c.

Summon Seraph has a 120s cooldown, and Angelic Benediction has a 60s cooldown.
Since Angelic Benediction is only useable while Seraph is up, this makes Angelic Benediction's effective cooldown 120s. Unless this is intended to be on cooldown with the 3 other fairy abilities, which either also have long cooldowns (120s) or would require massive gauge (Feo Ul).

Why would you ever want to use Cancel Fey Deployment? As worded, it would put both fairies in play and lock their abilities out, while granting an extra heal on Physick/Science. There doesn't seem to be a reason to cancel it. The current Fey Union locks your fairy in place, locks it on a specific target and has a very short cooldown. It is cancellable because you might need to move it or change target. You do not have this problem with Fey Deployment.

Due to the way DoT snapshot in this game, Art of Poison is very poweful. This is because, as worded, the effect will compound:
Cyanide + Arsenic + Miasma II under raid buffs (lets assume a low 10%) = 126 per tick
126 * 1.5 = ~189 per tick (Art of Poison 1)
189 * 1.5 = ~284 per tick (After 2 minutes, Art of Poison 2, keeping DoTs active the whole time)
284 * 1.5 = ~426 per tick (Art of Poison 3)

The Science/Steel combo is pretty strange, because it would effectively be another movement tool. 15s duration translates into 3 Sciences and 3 Steels. Using 1 Science and 1 Steel is worse DPS-wise than one Broil III, but better than Miasma II and Ruin II. You wouldn't use it in heal-intensive situations because 'spamming' Adlo (making sure the shield breaks before-reapply) would be more effective, and you still get the same MP efficiency as Physick (1 MP = 1 heal potency).

As worded, it seems like you will always have enough gauge to use both Seraph and Feo Ul on cooldown. Embrace generate 5 per cast, 20 casts per minute for 100 gauge + 30 from Aetherflow actions gives 130 per minute. Seraph has a 2 minutes cooldown and takes 100 (50 per fairy) for 50 per minute. Feo Ul has a 3 minutes cooldown and takes 160 (80 per fairy) for ~54 per minute. 50 + 54 = 104 < 130.

Sorry if I got any of the math horribly wrong.

[Kabzy]

Give SCH and the other two more options for damage dealing, and all of sudden:

“Where’s your Shadowflare?”
“You aren’t refreshing all of your DoTs or you’re clipping too much”
“You aren’t using your DPS skills properly”

This whole “give one give all” thing is a huge part of the problem in the first place. If you couldn’t handle DoTs, clipping etc you play WHM, the basic bee of the three.

Giving SCH some of its past identity back doesn’t mean everyone needs to get the same things. Obviously if SCH was given more DoTs, there would be an expectation that their other DPS tools would be heavily nerfed in power. Nobody is asking for SCH to be OP, they’re asking for some fun back. BACK being the key word there.

[Ceasaria]

A few mechanicals quirks, or just my 2c.

Summon Seraph has a 120s cooldown, and Angelic Benediction has a 60s cooldown.
Since Angelic Benediction is only useable while Seraph is up, this makes Angelic Benediction's effective cooldown 120s. Unless this is intended to be on cooldown with the 3 other fairy abilities, which either also have long cooldowns (120s) or would require massive gauge (Feo Ul).

- Imagine Angelic Benediction with 120s cooldown. Let's say I use Summon Seraph at 1 min and 3 min in the fight, and Angelic Benediction at 1 min 20. You see I could only use it the next time between 3 min 20 and 3 min 30.
If you delay too much this ability and want to use Summon Seraph as quick as CD is up, you may loose you Angelic Benediction.
Of course what I want is being able to use Angelic Benediction during all the time Seraph is summoned and everytime I call her as soon as she is ready.

Why would you ever want to use Cancel Fey Deployment? As worded, it would put both fairies in play and lock their abilities out, while granting an extra heal on Physick/Science. There doesn't seem to be a reason to cancel it. The current Fey Union locks your fairy in place, locks it on a specific target and has a very short cooldown. It is cancellable because you might need to move it or change target. You do not have this problem with Fey Deployment.

- The fact I want to cancel Fey Deployment is to use principly Summon Seraph, Summon Feo Ul or using a fairy ability now. I don't want to have the restriction to wait for Fey Deployment to end.

Due to the way DoT snapshot in this game, Art of Poison is very poweful. This is because, as worded, the effect will compound:
Cyanide + Arsenic + Miasma II under raid buffs (lets assume a low 10%) = 126 per tick
126 * 1.5 = ~189 per tick (Art of Poison 1)
189 * 1.5 = ~284 per tick (After 2 minutes, Art of Poison 2, keeping DoTs active the whole time)
284 * 1.5 = ~426 per tick (Art of Poison 3)

- Hmmm, not sure if I have understand what you say about Art of Poison, but in no case, it become stronger over the time.
Your current DoT become stronger on the target who you applied Art of Poison. You can see it as a debuff on your target instead of a buff on you. And it works only on the effective DoT. When they end or are refreshed, Art of Poison doesn't work anymore on those DoT until you apply again Art of Poison the next time.

The Science/Steel combo is pretty strange, because it would effectively be another movement tool. 15s duration translates into 3 Sciences and 3 Steels. Using 1 Science and 1 Steel is worse DPS-wise than one Broil III, but better than Miasma II and Ruin II. You wouldn't use it in heal-intensive situations because 'spamming' Adlo (making sure the shield breaks before-reapply) would be more effective, and you still get the same MP efficiency as Physick (1 MP = 1 heal potency).

- Yes for Science/Steel, I have looked at Afflatus from WHM for this. They lose a bit of dps while doing this but they can move and are doing good healing. If you think about efficiency heal/dps, it's worth to use Science/Steel if the fight require some mono healing and moving. It's better than the use of Regen from the co healer plus you aside using Broil III.

As worded, it seems like you will always have enough gauge to use both Seraph and Feo Ul on cooldown. Embrace generate 5 per cast, 20 casts per minute for 100 gauge + 30 from Aetherflow actions gives 130 per minute. Seraph has a 2 minutes cooldown and takes 100 (50 per fairy) for 50 per minute. Feo Ul has a 3 minutes cooldown and takes 160 (80 per fairy) for ~54 per minute. 50 + 54 = 104 < 130.

Sorry if I got any of the math horribly wrong.

- You can remove ~ 6 cast every 2 minutes because of their abilities which will prevent the fairy to cast Embrace.
In the world of dps optimization, you will summon Feo Ul prepull, like maybe 5 sec before the start.
After she disappears, the goal is to have the possibility to summon Seraph around 1 min after.
Then after Seraph disappears, it left 1 min before Feo Ul is up again. You have to use Fey Deployment to increase your gauge gain (if not did before).
During the moment where you Summon Feo Ul around 3 min, you should have 20/20 left if everything is going good.
This 20/20 is here to prevent long cutscene or disadvantageous moments avoiding you to increase you gauge.
PS : I can put my mathematical operations here if you want.

Thanks for your opinion, I hope I have answered some of your concerns. Tell me if you need more explanations ^^

[Volkaj]

P.S. Really sorry for cutting the quotes, post was getting too long (3000 chars)

- Imagine Angelic Benediction ...

Accounting for leeway in this manner gives a 90s cooldown. And realistically, the average is still 120s since you must've waited until the end of Seraph's duration for that to happen.

- The fact I want to cancel Fey Deployment ...

It seems simpler to me to have Summon Seraph/Feo Ul just cancel the effect, rather than requiring a separate skill. Just like using any fairy skill or summoning Seraph right now in ShB cancels Fey Union.

- Hmmm, not sure if I have understand what you say about Art of Poison, ...

Art of Poison
Increase by 50% the potency of the current Arsenic, Cyanide and Miasma II affecting the target.
Duration: Time remaining on the original effects.

As worded, this does not mention any extra debuff. You have to keep in mind that when DoTs are refreshed, they always keep their current properties. This is called DoT snapshotting. This is why the "current" part of Art of Poison's description leads to this conclusion; you increase the current potency of your DoTs, which they keep when refreshed.

- Yes for Science/Steel, I have looked at Afflatus. ...

WHM Lilies are often kept until needed. Science/Steel, as designed, would not work this way. It would replace uses of Adloquium that are for pure healing rather than shielding (pretty rare), and you'd often only need the first Science/Steel combo for that. Anecdotal evidence: in all my runs of O8-12S and E1-E4S I do not recall having ever used Adlo outside emergencies or shielding for Deployment Tactics. Both cases which would not be covered by Science/Steel. As a movement tool it would be more potent than Miasma II only if you needed to move for a full 2 GCDs. That does happen, but most of the time you can slidecast.

- You can remove ~ 6 cast ...

Fairy skills are OGCDs, and Embrace is instant cast. There should be no missing Embraces from fairy skills.

In the world of dps optimization, you will summon Feo Ul prepull, ...

T: 0, Prepull Feo Ul, 180s cooldown
T: 30, Feo Ul leaves. Keep Eos up for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 60, Swap to Selene for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 90, This is enough for Seraph. Summon Seraph, 90s left on Feo Ul.
T: 120, Seraph leaves, 60s left on Feo Ul. Keep Selene up for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 150, Swap to Eos for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 180, Summon Feo Ul.

From fairy actions alone you will have 100 gauge at this point, but 180s is also 3 full Aetherflow stacks,
or 90 gauge. Substracting what you're missing for Feo Ul, you're left with 30, or an average of 15 per fairy. This is without using Fey Deployment, which effectively doubles your gauge generation.

[Eloah]

I'll have to examine this a bit more when my cold does it's own form of "Dissipation", lol. I can't say whether this is a good direction or not just yet, but I can say one thing, well maybe two.

First, there is only 1 fairy, I dont know why people always forget that. So a move that relays on summoning multiple isn't a good addition since that isn't something SCHs do. It's specific to their lore, the Seraph is just another form she takes. So skills like "Fey Deployment" or "Summon Feo Ul" are not good skills to have. I am okay for more glamour options, which are what Eos and Selene are right now.

And second, again someone tries to rework SCH and doesn't add Meltdown, grrr...


Also a few bonuses for now. One I would add Recitation back in in its original form, since by removing it you are actually taking away from SCHs tactical aspect some. Second, I would change the name for either Art or War or Art of Poison, Since in Japanese, Art of War's name is actually Poisoning Art. And last I would find different names for the upgraded Poisons, Science, and Steel. The poison names feel too "real" and the other names feel too out of place. Why not something like Pox or Helix for poisons and something as simple as Physick II and dare I say Meltdown, lol. Also why not just keep the name Biolysis?

[Ceasaria]

- Accounting for leeway in this manner gives a 90s cooldown. And realistically, the average is still 120s since you must've waited until the end of Seraph's duration for that to happen.

- It seems simpler to me to have Summon Seraph/Feo Ul just cancel the effect, rather than requiring a separate skill. Just like using any fairy skill or summoning Seraph right now in ShB cancels Fey Union.

- As worded, this does not mention any extra debuff. You have to keep in mind that when DoTs are refreshed, they always keep their current properties. This is called DoT snapshotting. This is why the "current" part of Art of Poison's description leads to this conclusion; you increase the current potency of your DoTs, which they keep when refreshed.

- Fairy skills are OGCDs, and Embrace is instant cast. There should be no missing Embraces from fairy skills.

- In fact I could but it doesn't really matter, since we don't have that for Consolation which has 30s cd (but I agree that 45s cd would work too which would lead to 90s cd for my fairy skills).

- The problem is how I have formulated my skills. Summoning Seraph and Feo Ul require to call back the current fairy. The problem is I have 2 fairies with Fey Deployment, so I would need to add extra text for this...Hmm regarding Eloah comment ^^' about Lily, I will try to adjust the text so as you say, we will no need Cancel Fey Deployment anymore.

- "This is called DoT snapshotting", oohhhh, okay I didn't know that O_O, oops.
I will adjust this skill too then.

- Hmm, you are maybe right. I still have the old Embrace in mind where she took time to cast it. My bad. Anyway, I'm not sure if I will adjust the gain somewhere. I think, It's fine to have more ressources in stock in case.

- First, there is only 1 fairy, I dont know why people always forget that. So a move that relays on summoning multiple isn't a good addition since that isn't something SCHs do. It's specific to their lore, the Seraph is just another form she takes. So skills like "Fey Deployment" or "Summon Feo Ul" are not good skills to have. I am okay for more glamour options, which are what Eos and Selene are right now.

- And second, again someone tries to rework SCH and doesn't add Meltdown, grrr...

- Also a few bonuses for now. One I would add Recitation back in in its original form, since by removing it you are actually taking away from SCHs tactical aspect some. Second, I would change the name for either Art or War or Art of Poison, Since in Japanese, Art of War's name is actually Poisoning Art. And last I would find different names for the upgraded Poisons, Science, and Steel. The poison names feel too "real" and the other names feel too out of place. Why not something like Pox or Helix for poisons and something as simple as Physick II and dare I say Meltdown, lol. Also why not just keep the name Biolysis?

- I understand this (and forgot too). I will try to adjust that.

- What do you want to do with Meltdown ? Where does it come from ?

- Recitation has been moved to Seraph skill. It's maybe more restricted to access but you have 3 uses. For Poison names, I have just taken those from FFIX ^^


Edit : Final Adjustments :
- A new gauge has been added and shared between Angelic Aetherflow and Pixie Aetherflow.
- Cancel Fey Deployment has been removed.
- Fey Deployment has been adjusted and changed to Fey Reverie.
The 2nd fairy is appearing now with a dream form (it should resolve the lore issue).
It’s now possible to use Summon Seraph and Summon Feo Ul.
- Art of Poison has been adjusted.
Now, refreshing Arsenic, Cyanide or Miasma II will remove the Art of Poison effect respectively.