Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[SpeckledBurd]

Look guys, I know you love discussing this stuff, but if theyve ignored you for legit nearly 7 years now, I have absolutely no clue why they would start listening to you now.

It's pointless to not give feedback or they'll end up making things even worse.

So, accept mediocrity and never strive for something greater. This really is a dumb post and has 0 contribution. While they may ignore us most of the time, there has been a few things have changed over the years for the better: Brotherhood affecting the MNK that used it, Slowdown from RoF removed, Form Shift refreshing stacks, RoE doing something useful, reduction on PB cooldown. They might not be gameplay changing, but they DID listen on these few instances.

They do make changes based on feedback but with Monk it's rarely prompt. I think part of the issue with Monk is that for all that they did make those changes they were never made promptly. We requested a Perfect Balance recast reduction in Heavensward when it was obvious 3 Minutes was way too long for all number of fights (A1S, A6S come to mind) and it was implemented deep into Stormblood. For all that it appeared that the 5.05 changes were an immediate response to the poor reception of Monk at launch, there's nothing they did there that we hadn't asked for for literal years. Every problem that's being fixed there is a Stormblood problem that we'd complained about from the get go, RoF's slow, Formshift to refresh stacks like Transpose Refreshed Enochian, RoE to not have a stupid effect, and increasing mantras pitiful range were not new problems or requests with Shadowbringers, they were all things that should have been implemented as the core design if the devs were actually "Taking feedback" as they said they were towards the end of Stormblood.

As for Brotherhood effecting the Monk, it even took months for that to happen and was only really necessary because of buff creep dropping Monks damage in Stormblood. The basic functionality Brotherhood fix (Stopping one Brotherhood from overwriting another) also took nearly a year to implement even though it was identified as a problem pretty much immediately.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

It's
Snip

Well, I never said they did it in a timely manner lmao. My point was to counter FoxCh40s saying the developers have "legit ignored you for nearly 7 years". Which is false. They made changes, but yeah, they were extremely late for when it was asked for. A6 imo wasn't too bad, I was able to keep my stacks up by insta pulling and PB was always up for the Vortexer. A1S was definitely annoying. My biggest problem was A11s because that fight was downright broken. In prog you'd see more phases early on which meant PB was up when you needed it. But after 2 weeks of gear, the skips meant PB was never up when it was needed. That was when I first though 2 minutes should really be the norm.

The non-urgency to any of MNK issues are always very disappointing. I still hold out hope for changes in 5.3. They said job changes would come and I hope that MNK is on there. I don't expect anything groundbreaking but some more engaging/fun playability would be nice.

[Kolsykol]

People keep saying '' bring Touch of Death back! '' but was it really that fun of an ability?
If they bring it back then I honestly hope that they make it an OGCD execute ability, it'd make more sense thematically too.

[Shurrikhan]

People keep saying '' bring Touch of Death back! '' but was it really that fun of an ability?
If they bring it back then I honestly hope that they make it an OGCD execute ability, it'd make more sense thematically too.

In itself, no. But its mere existance allowed a great deal of other fun stuff, such as rotational variance, positional forgiveness that rewarded foresight rather than being devolved to simply hitting an oGCD, and some hefty 2-3 target bonus damage.

[Kolsykol]

In itself, no. But its mere existance allowed a great deal of other fun stuff, such as rotational variance, positional forgiveness that rewarded foresight rather than being devolved to simply hitting an oGCD, and some hefty 2-3 target bonus damage.

I can see the multi-targeting, but I just think of it as another dot with a pretty boring animation to keep up.
A less cool Demolish basically.

It's just so low on my list of what's wrong with Monk xD, actually it's not even on the list.

[VentVanitas]

I can see the multi-targeting, but I just think of it as another dot with a pretty boring animation to keep up.
A less cool Demolish basically.

It's just so low on my list of what's wrong with Monk xD, actually it's not even on the list.

I miss Touch of Death too but I'd rather something new (especially since Monk is in desperate need of a visual overhaul), but I only want it back because at this point I'll take anything to break up the monotony that is ShB MNK's rotation, and ToD hypothetically would be a good fit for that since it was an independent GCD- and one that required some thought put into its use. The role that I thought Six Sided Star would fulfil upon seeing it in the trailer. Though I'm sure everyone knows how well that turned out...

I know we're way too far into the expansion for a rework to happen, but I'm just hoping 5.3 will throw us a bone at the very least.

[SpeckledBurd]

People keep saying '' bring Touch of Death back! '' but was it really that fun of an ability?
If they bring it back then I honestly hope that they make it an OGCD execute ability, it'd make more sense thematically too.

IMO it was a job feel thing. The other jobs were very rigid in how they had to approach using their uncombo'd DoT, Monk being able to use it freely really bolstered the feeling of its combos being non-linear, which in turn made it feel martial artist-y. That was on top of some of the additional rotational utility it had that Shurrikhan mentioned.

In itself, no. But its mere existance allowed a great deal of other fun stuff, such as rotational variance, positional forgiveness that rewarded foresight rather than being devolved to simply hitting an oGCD, and some hefty 2-3 target bonus damage.

Also Fracture which had that same utility and a slightly shorter DoT so you could use it more frequently without clipping.

Plus between those two actions you had more freedom to deal with variable skill speeds or getting thrown an arrow.

Edit: also, hilariously, when we had it Fracture was like our second or third strongest GCD, so getting that out and critting it during a buff window was super satisfying.

I miss Touch of Death too but I'd rather something new (especially since Monk is in desperate need of a visual overhaul), but I only want it back because at this point I'll take anything to break up the monotony that is ShB MNK's rotation, and ToD hypothetically would be a good fit for that since it was an independent GCD- and one that required some thought put into its use. The role that I thought Six Sided Star would fulfil upon seeing it in the trailer. Though I'm sure everyone knows how well that turned out...

I know we're way too far into the expansion for a rework to happen, but I'm just hoping 5.3 will throw us a bone at the very least.

We don't even need it to be a DoT, a new skill in our rotation could just be a weaponskill that takes a GCD to use but with a 30 second (ish) recast like Sonic Break or Shadow Fang but pure damage, or have some other means of granting it(Execute True Strike x number of times, Upkeep GL for 30 seconds, refresh GL X number of times)

There's no way to know what they'll do in 5.3 at this point but I agree reworks at this stage are unlikely. I wouldn't hold out hope for it but it'd be awful to have to hear "We know you're unhappy but we won't be making major changes since we're gearing up for the next expansion, please provide feedback." when we've heard that for two expansions in a row and provided loads of feedback already.

[Shiroe]

imo just slight changes can keep Monk fluid:

my thoughts

- tornado kick is now a rear combo after true strike (+ TK combo hit = 50% of opening a chakra, crit too, so can have upto 2 open chakras if lucky)

- six-sided Star is now a flank after demolish (+ SSS combo hit = 50% of opening a chakra, crit also, so can have upto 2 opems if lucky)

that way we keep positional busy, but dont need to reapply twin snakes every third cycle (instead only as in the past every 2nd), so disengaging from boss feels less painfull

sure, we are "rng" dependent, but Rng is more on our side

..

- and replace anatman with a long dot (so we have some variation), like bring back touch of death (+ each tick has a 10-12% chance to open chackra, multi doting becomes even better)

turn riddlel of earth into a "third eye" thingy, when we get hit with the "third eye" thingy it turns into a ca. 200-300 potency OGCD we can use.. and resets mantra upon using the ogcd (if mantra dont need reseting, than it buffs next mantra)

[Shiroe]

imo just slight changes can keep Monk fluid:

my thoughts

- tornado kick is now a rear combo after true strike (+ TK combo hit = 50% of opening a chakra, crit too, so can have upto 2 open chakras if lucky)

- six-sided Star is now a flank after demolish (+ SSS combo hit = 50% of opening a chakra, crit also, so can have upto 2 opems if lucky)

that way we keep positional busy, but dont need to reapply twin snakes every third cycle (instead only as in the past every 2nd), so disengaging from boss feels less painfull

sure, we are "rng" dependent, but Rng is more on our side

..

- and replace anatman with a long dot (so we have some variation), like bring back touch of death (+ each tick has a 10-12% chance to open chackra, multi doting becomes even better)

turn riddlel of earth into a "third eye" thingy, when we get hit with the "third eye" thingy it turns into a ca. 200-300 potency OGCD we can use.. and resets mantra upon using the ogcd (if mantra dont need reseting, than it buffs next mantra)

this might make Mkn a bit more "simple" again, but keeps it fluid and activ.. and rng rewards feel nice (atm chakra only feels rewarding when poping brorherhood)

if too much RNg, simplify it or take it out of those ideas

.. potency changes overall mighty be needed ofc

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Snip

It doesn't matter how high the RNG chance is. It will never feel fun and therefore can never be planned around as it's RNG. And with no overflow of chakras allowed it just forces TFC into this brainless skill where once you have it you use it instantly. You can't hold it for burst for more than one or two GCDs JUST incase you overcap on Chakras. With overflow, maybe, just maybe RNG could somewhat work AS LONG as there was also a guaranteed way to get chakras with a CD or something.

Your TK and 6SS don't really fix any issues of non form skills to buffer positionals as they them self have a positional. I really feel like MNK has enough positionals as is. We just nees more engaging ways to buffer positional hits, which, RoE somewhat fills but is completely overkill as it's so long and then actively removes the fun of trying for positionals.

I'm sorry I just really dislike the idea of 4 skills having potential for chakra activation. Which means even more chances to not get chakras too which would be insanely frustrating and would actually take the job into a more convoluted play style than simple. I personally find MNK to be simple already, it has some nuances such as counting GCDs before a boss jumps to 6SS/TK for DPS increases but for the most part the job is feeling very uninspired and unengaging for me personally and I'd prefer more of an evolution in terms of its play style.