Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

If they opt to go the route similar to how Tifa plays on FFVII Remake. They need to untie haste from Greased Lightning, that way we could have interesting mechanics attached to it and have it treated like a resource. Have the speed be a passive thing that is gained through traits. At all the levels MNK gains extra stacks of GL they could receive a trait that simply gives them a passive 5% haste too.

This way, GL would be a pure damage % modifier but would also give access to different oGCDs. For example, base Tifa has Whirlwind uppercut, 1 chi level grants her Omnistrike and 2 chi levels grants her Rise and Fall. Omnistrike I believe is the strongest, but Rise and Fall gives a bigger stagger % increase. The way in which MNKs could use this mechanic could replace the clunky RNG chakra mechanic and tie in with Greased Lightning. At 1 stack we could gain access to TFC, 2 stacks 6SS and 3 could be Tornado Kick etc... Each ability reduces stacks by 1, but the potencies are big to justify dropping. If we were to have a 2nd gauge, we could have it function similar to the ATB system in Remake wherein GL finishers and weaponskills could fill it. At 50 Gauge (Total of 100) we can use Anatman which grants one GL stack on a cooldown (45s?). We could also have the gauge allow access to a couple oGCDs too.

In this instance MNKs would still 'ramp up' for burst but the payoff would be a huge damage dump. I'd tone down the damage so that each GL stack gave 5% damage so that with each stack gone it wouldn't feel like we're hitting like a wet noodle after the burst. I really think the MNK job developer could learn something interesting from how Tifa plays in FFVII Remake. I'm not saying they should make a complete replica of her in this but at the very least I think the haste from GL needs to be passive and only the damage portion of it remains. It's the speed aspect which is clearly causing issues for them developing anything new because every time something is introduced to do with GL it either forces us to go slow or stand still because they just can't balance around the speed of it. Whereas if it the speed was passive then they could balance properly around it because the speed would be consistent and never changing. The devs could really do some interesting things with MNK if they chose to rework it properly instead of clamouring to this dated design.

[Kolsykol]

I honestly don't feel like we need a rework, the main rotation feels good to use and is fine imo.
The main problem I have is Anatman and also I wish that either Tornado Kick and Six-Sided Star ( or both ) were involved in our main rotation.

I kinda hate how we get these new toys and then they're just totally situational...
It has bothered me for the longest time with Tornado Kick, it's such a cool ability but you don't rly get to use it. Even in PvP we have Axe Kick which looks and feels awesome but in PvE we don't really have anything that cool.

[SpeckledBurd]

I honestly don't feel like we need a rework, the main rotation feels good to use and is fine imo.
The main problem I have is Anatman and also I wish that either Tornado Kick and Six-Sided Star ( or both ) were involved in our main rotation.

I kinda hate how we get these new toys and then they're just totally situational...
It has bothered me for the longest time with Tornado Kick, it's such a cool ability but you don't rly get to use it. Even in PvP we have Axe Kick which looks and feels awesome but in PvE we don't really have anything that cool.

I kinda agree and kinda disagree.

On the one hand, I think that the fundamentals of the job, meaning the basic GCD loop, the basic concept of Greased Lighting, and form based combos are a solid foundation. They don't need to be reworked in the way that SB Machinist did where they threw the entire thing out and started over.

However the way they've handled not just action additions or new traits, but also adjusted existing skills such as Dragon Kick by adding Leaden Bootshine, has left the job with an expanded kit that's confused, utterly lacking in synergy, and unsatisfying to play. To make Monk players happy at this point I'd tentatively say that they need to outright replace Fists of Earth, Wind and Fire plus the two traits attached to them, and they need to either revise or replace Dragon Kick/Leaden Bootshine, Tornado Kick, Riddle of Earth, Brotherhood, Anatman, Six Sided Star, and Deep Meditation 1 and 2. That's 9 skills currently in the kit that need reworking and nearly every post ARR trait which basically encompasses everything to do with how its gauge works, how it builds resources, and how it spends that resource. That also isn't even touching on returning skills to it's kit that it would benefit from such as Touch of Death/Fracture which had significantly more utility on Monk than just being DoTs.

The amount of work it needs even if they keep the core is, frankly, depressing. There's no reason it should have been allowed to get this bad, but hey, they were very proud of it on launch.

[Kolsykol]

I kinda agree and kinda disagree.

On the one hand, I think that the fundamentals of the job, meaning the basic GCD loop, the basic concept of Greased Lighting, and form based combos are a solid foundation. They don't need to be reworked in the way that SB Machinist did where they threw the entire thing out and started over.

However the way they've handled not just action additions or new traits, but also adjusted existing skills such as Dragon Kick by adding Leaden Bootshine, has left the job with an expanded kit that's confused, utterly lacking in synergy, and unsatisfying to play. To make Monk players happy at this point I'd tentatively say that they need to outright replace Fists of Earth, Wind and Fire plus the two traits attached to them, and they need to either revise or replace Dragon Kick/Leaden Bootshine, Tornado Kick, Riddle of Earth, Brotherhood, Anatman, Six Sided Star, and Deep Meditation 1 and 2. That's 9 skills currently in the kit that need reworking and nearly every post ARR trait which basically encompasses everything to do with how its gauge works, how it builds resources, and how it spends that resource. That also isn't even touching on returning skills to it's kit that it would benefit from such as Touch of Death/Fracture which had significantly more utility on Monk than just being DoTs.

The amount of work it needs even if they keep the core is, frankly, depressing. There's no reason it should have been allowed to get this bad, but hey, they were very proud of it on launch.

I suppose that it's a question about how we define '' rework '', to me I sorta interpret that as what happened with Machinist but yeah.

I actually do find it fun to play and don't think that it's as bad as people make it out to be but that's also a matter of opinion, I mean I prefer the old sound effects for GNB but people complained and they changed it to the new ones.
My main issue with Monk really is that it just feels like everyone keeps getting new toys and have this sense of progression in their rotations but here we are still doing more or less the same things we've been doing since the beginning xD......
I just kinda want this progression to happen like what happened with BLM, how they went from the small firebolts to these huge F4 explosions. Make us feel like our characters have actually become these Master Monks. Because it doesn't really feel like it tbh.
And the annoying thing is that we actually did get these toys, but they just won't let us use them.
I remember when I saw the trailer for Shadowbringers where they showed off the new abilities, and I saw Six-Sided Star and was all like '' NICE! ''.
It was the same with Tornado Kick.
But then nooope, barely ever used lol.
The traits really do feel pretty boring too, and I think that it's kinda unnecessary to have Fists of Fire and Wind be so separated.

But yeah, even tho I am still having fun with Monk it could still be way better and there's some pretty obvious problems.

[SpeckledBurd]

I suppose that it's a question about how we define '' rework '', to me I sorta interpret that as what happened with Machinist but yeah.

I actually do find it fun to play and don't think that it's as bad as people make it out to be but that's also a matter of opinion, I mean I prefer the old sound effects for GNB but people complained and they changed it to the new ones.
My main issue with Monk really is that it just feels like everyone keeps getting new toys and have this sense of progression in their rotations but here we are still doing more or less the same things we've been doing since the beginning xD......
I just kinda want this progression to happen like what happened with BLM, how they went from the small firebolts to these huge F4 explosions. Make us feel like our characters have actually become these Master Monks. Because it doesn't really feel like it tbh.
And the annoying thing is that we actually did get these toys, but they just won't let us use them.
I remember when I saw the trailer for Shadowbringers where they showed off the new abilities, and I saw Six-Sided Star and was all like '' NICE! ''.
It was the same with Tornado Kick.
But then nooope, barely ever used lol.

The traits really do feel pretty boring too, and I think that it's kinda unnecessary to have Fists of Fire and Wind be so separated.

I suppose the problem with the term Rework right now is its been used to describe pretty much any time a job's kit has seen change. The Stormblood action rework didn't fundamentally change many jobs at all, but the Machinist rework rebuilt an entire new job that used Machinist's existing animations.

In this case, my point was that Monk has so much in its kit that needs revision that to actually satisfy Monk players at this point they're going to need to almost put in Machinist level rework anyway. It's kit outside of the core is just that busted.

[VentVanitas]

I just kinda want this progression to happen like what happened with BLM, how they went from the small firebolts to these huge F4 explosions. Make us feel like our characters have actually become these Master Monks. Because it doesn't really feel like it tbh.

Outside of purely mechanical or gameplay problems, this is probably my biggest gripe with MNK. There is no aesthetic progression or consistency. Someone had already pointed out in another thread that Elixir Field, while looks cool, makes absolutely no sense. If we learn EF that early, then why does it take us two expansions to essentially do the same move, but sideways? (Enlightenment)

The way that skills are laid out over the levels and how you learn them, makes the WoL as a monk, look incredibly forgetful or the worst pupil ever. (Ignoring the fact that the MNK questlines already do this...) Did wandering the wastes of Norvrandt without a tutor fry our brains or something?

[Shurrikhan]

Outside of purely mechanical or gameplay problems, this is probably my biggest gripe with MNK. There is no aesthetic progression or consistency. Someone had already pointed out in another thread that Elixir Field, while looks cool, makes absolutely no sense. If we learn EF that early, then why does it take us two expansions to essentially do the same move, but sideways? (Enlightenment)

I've never been a fan of Elixir Field. It looks like it should be this fitting decisive "all in" spender of some granular resource, where one benefits in certain ways from having so rapidly spent that resource or from having emptied it, but instead it's just... mediocre free damage.

Heck, it makes me wish MNK would go more down the "action" route and have positionally dependent skills. No target and mid-jump? You get the EF we have now. Targeted? Enlightenment? Targeted, mid-jump? A combination of the two that allows you to vault away. Etc., etc.

[Kolsykol]

I've never been a fan of Elixir Field. It looks like it should be this fitting decisive "all in" spender of some granular resource, where one benefits in certain ways from having so rapidly spent that resource or from having emptied it, but instead it's just... mediocre free damage.

Heck, it makes me wish MNK would go more down the "action" route and have positionally dependent skills. No target and mid-jump? You get the EF we have now. Targeted? Enlightenment? Targeted, mid-jump? A combination of the two that allows you to vault away. Etc., etc.

The name itself doesn't even make sense to me lol.
'' Elixir Field ''. Wat?
I thought I was a Monk, not an Alchemist xD...

I don't mind the jump into the air and all that, but I think it'd be cool too if instead of jumping into the air and doing it your character did more of a Hadoken move and the beam went forward instead.
Heck, I want a Shoryuken move too lol.
I mean cmon, there's so much to draw from just looking at fighting games as inspiration.
Or Chun's Hyakuretsukyaku.

There's such an endless amount of reference material to be inspired by, far more than with other classes.

[Shurrikhan]

The name itself doesn't even make sense to me lol.
'' Elixir Field ''. Wat?
I thought I was a Monk, not an Alchemist xD...

Sadly, even the only version named differently, the Japanese, amounts only to "Blue Energy Cannon". I mean, really?

With the power of, something... maybe Chakra... maybe Ki... maybe Greased Lightning... I get to use a 220-potency AoE once every 30 seconds via a big Blue Energy Cannon?

[SpeckledBurd]

Sadly, even the only version named differently, the Japanese, amounts only to "Blue Energy Cannon". I mean, really?

With the power of, something... maybe Chakra... maybe Ki... maybe Greased Lightning... I get to use a 220-potency AoE once every 30 seconds via a big Blue Energy Cannon?

Elixir Field is actually an odd, probably overly literal translation of a concept related to the same Chinese mysticism/martial arts that the ideas of Chakras and chi come from that could also be translated as "Sea of Chi".

Honestly anything would have been a better name for it like "Roaring Wave Fist" or "Silent Roar" like Ivon Coeurlfist's Hadoken move was called. I'd also throw the same criticism at "Enlightenment", because nothing says spiritual realization like firing a laser out of your hands.