Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Ramura_Sono]

I can’t be disappointed if I had no expectations anyway.

At this point the devs ignoring the job is just what they do, why think they’d ever do differently?

" The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised."

Guess we're waiting till 6.0 for absolutely nothing to change again.

[Burningskull]

What if they changed Monk to something akin to SAM mixed with Zell's Limit System from FF8.

Remove GL or make it a always on trait. If removed make all MNK's GCDs 1 or 1.5s unaffected by skillspeed.
Remove Fist of Fire, Earth, and Wind.
Change Meditation completely to be like that of Iaijutsu but instead of making sens you perform combos with your GCDs to do heavy hitting moves. For Example one combo could be Bootshine > Bootshine > True Strike = Dolphin Blow. Kind of more like the Mudra system I guess but have it so that one Heavy Hitting move would empower the other or, make it so that one heavy hitting move starts the combo of another move similar to Legaia 2. For Example if Bootshine > Bootshine > True Strike = Dolphin Blow and Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch = Meteo Rain then you could do Bootshine > Bootshine > True Strike > Dolphin Bow > True Strike > Snap Punch > Meteo Rain.

[Kabooa]

Seems like you'd need some variable internal CDs on the weaponskills to prevent spamming whatever does the most potency.

[Burningskull]

Seems like you'd need some variable internal CDs on the weaponskills to prevent spamming whatever does the most potency.

I think the goal would be to make longer combos shorter. Like the hardest hitting combo would take 6 regular GCDs to activate it but if you do a couple of combos before hand it could only take 3 or 2 GCDs to pull off, making you do more damage over the whole combo. Maybe. But it's just an idea lol.

[Kabooa]

I think the goal would be to make longer combos shorter. Like the hardest hitting combo would take 6 regular GCDs to activate it but if you do a couple of combos before hand it could only take 3 or 2 GCDs to pull off, making you do more damage over the whole combo. Maybe. But it's just an idea lol.

Legend of Legaia used a similar battle system for its game, where directional inputs lead to special attacks, and the special attack itself counted as an input for another. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJfQl0Qr3hg

High Low High = Somersault. The Somersault triggers on the last 'High' and that still counted as input for another skill.

High Low High Low Low= High Kick, Low Kick, Somersault, Low Kick, Some other skill I forgot the name of (IIRC, the special attacks had to be different to chain this way)

Legend of Legaia utilized a system similar to old fashioned TP where it's built and spent, where as 2.0+ TP functioned more like standard MMO "Energy" systems, as well as maximum number of inputs per turn.

Current FF14 has no TP system and no 'maximum input', other than building a limitation into Monk itself.

Building it into the Chakra system would serve as a suitable limiter. Basic weaponskills build Chakra + inputs for the special ability, special ability spends chakra. Weaponskills falling into a category with a gauge representing your last 3 inputs / skill type.



So every special attack could have a 3 input string, while varying chakra costs.

So you have things like Dots, Buffs, Debuffs being lower cost chakra with big finishers being higher chakra costs. The goal is to minimize your Input strings to get the right special finisher with the appropriate chakra to use it.

[SpeckledBurd]

Legend of Legaia used a similar battle system for its game, where directional inputs lead to special attacks, and the special attack itself counted as an input for another. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJfQl0Qr3hg

High Low High = Somersault. The Somersault triggers on the last 'High' and that still counted as input for another skill.

High Low High Low Low= High Kick, Low Kick, Somersault, Low Kick, Some other skill I forgot the name of (IIRC, the special attacks had to be different to chain this way)

Legend of Legaia utilized a system similar to old fashioned TP where it's built and spent, where as 2.0+ TP functioned more like standard MMO "Energy" systems, as well as maximum number of inputs per turn.

Current FF14 has no TP system and no 'maximum input', other than building a limitation into Monk itself.

Building it into the Chakra system would serve as a suitable limiter. Basic weaponskills build Chakra + inputs for the special ability, special ability spends chakra. Weaponskills falling into a category with a gauge representing your last 3 inputs / skill type.



So every special attack could have a 3 input string, while varying chakra costs.

So you have things like Dots, Buffs, Debuffs being lower cost chakra with big finishers being higher chakra costs. The goal is to minimize your Input strings to get the right special finisher with the appropriate chakra to use it.

I think this is similar to the Blitz concepts that I mentioned on the last page and someone proposed on the forum a while ago and in general I like it. I'd probably make it so you spend a certain amount of Chakra to enter the Blitz/Input Phase and then whatever action you trigger from that input is on a seperate cooldown (IE, Enter Blitz mode, input string, use Six Sided Star, it goes on cooldown for 90 seconds). There'd be one or two skills on a cooldown for both Single Target and AOE use (Six Sided Star/Suplex for single Target, Chi-Blast and Rising Phoenix) and then one that could get used for filler if you happen to cap on gauge without either of them.

[Mahrze]

Also, if we're bringing up Legaia. It had a "spirit" command that would allow you for the next "turn" to do a "longer" string. This is also similar to a game SE made around the same time called Xenogears. And the combo system was also on the same "combo strings" like Legaia.


https://youtu.be/brg5ca01fbU?t=63


Xenogears also had that you could "store" unused combo points to unleash a devastating string later.

[Kabooa]

I think this is similar to the Blitz concepts that I mentioned on the last page and someone proposed on the forum a while ago and in general I like it. I'd probably make it so you spend a certain amount of Chakra to enter the Blitz/Input Phase and then whatever action you trigger from that input is on a seperate cooldown (IE, Enter Blitz mode, input string, use Six Sided Star, it goes on cooldown for 90 seconds). There'd be one or two skills on a cooldown for both Single Target and AOE use (Six Sided Star/Suplex for single Target, Chi-Blast and Rising Phoenix) and then one that could get used for filler if you happen to cap on gauge without either of them.

Hrm. That seems like it'd be similar to Dance and Ninjutsu.

So it'd look like

[Ability - "Blitz"] Consumes Chakra.
Weaponskills morph into their Input equivalents.

[Weaponskill] Input 1
[Weaponskill] Input 2
[Weaponskill] Input 3

[Special Move - GCD or OGCD?]

Thinking further on what was said above, if 'Blitz' has an upfront Chakra cost to enter the toggle, then each weaponskill consumes Chakra, that allows the Special Attacks to be OGCDs.

In my mind, that means Monks would have two different phases when planning Chakra expenditure - Set ups and potency dumps. We can also have a central theme as the Monk levels now. Chakra expands from 5, to 7, to 14 (based on the story quests surrounding Chakra).

Blitz (Spend x) -> Input x 3 (consume 3) -> OGCD Special Ability (First 2 inputs gone, last input stays) -> repeat until 0 chakra. Prioritize any buffing abilities in short chakra bursts, then prioritize as many chakra dumps as possible during burst windows.

Obviously we'd have to change Chakra generation a bit but I've got nothing in mind for that at the moment.

[SpeckledBurd]

Hrm. That seems like it'd be similar to Dance and Ninjutsu.

Kind of but I was thinking of it more as a hybrid of Sen and Dance/Ninjutsu, so you'd execute Blitz and enter what amounts to the Perfect Balance state, and you'd still be executing the weaponskills would which would give a Raptor/Opo Opo/Coeurl Sigil on a hypothetical gauge (for simplicity and to allow buff/Demolish upkeep during the Blitz Phase), and then you'd follow it up with a Special Move with it's own internal cooldown. I'd honestly prefer it to be a GCD because I think that has a degree of impact on its own, and being on the GCD would theoretically allow it to have a higher potency for greater impact, but it being an oGCD would be fine as well as long as the pay off is satisfying.

Conceptually the idea ss a combination of something that Monk already does (actual free form combos) and Fighting Game super moves which due to the limitations of how MMOs are built makes it similar to NIN/DNC's gimmicks because they already do the button input. In a fighting game you build meter to execute a super move then perform a button input to perform it, here you'd build chakra and input a short GCD string to do the same.

[Imshail]

You guys must have forgotten about the devs and how they've been handling monk the past 3 expansions if you think they're going to change anything at this point then you're delusional , just to make a small list of the issues this job suffers from :
-the two layers of rng surrounding chakra procs
-the additional layer of rng that's added to that same chakra system by brotherhood making monk burst windows have three layers of rng
-the issues with chakra overcapping and not having any way to buffer chakra like every other job and their gauge mechanics
-the stances being downright useless as you'll stick to wind 99% of the time
-the level 72 trait existing solely to buff one of the said useless stances
-the overly niche abilities such as tornado kick seeing very little use
-Anatman being on the server tick
-Anatman being a gcd
-Anatman competing with meditation for short downtimes like maelstrom in e3s
-Six sided star despite being very useful for short disconnects competes with meditation as they're both on the gcd and cannot be used together
-Six sided star being an underwhelming capstone ability
-Perfect balance leaving monks stanceless after use
-Brotherhood only applying to physical jobs meaning that monks need to avoid double caster comps.
-The gutting of ogcds leaving monk rotation very hollow outside of the 90s and 120s windows with riddle of fire/perfect balance
-The lack of tools for manipulating monk gcd
-The lack of job identity, monk is supposed to be about speed and positionals yet in practice monks can ignore most of their positionals by using riddle of earth and true north and as for speed monk is barely faster than ninja/samurai and is also discouraged from building towards skill speed
-The Unrewarding execution and optimization as the excessive RNG makes a much bigger difference than any other factor when it comes to monk damage
-the excessive focus on giving monk tools for maintaining stacks (tools that do not work during situations like cutscenes or forced stuns) and the lack of tools for building stacks from a cold start
-the lack of reward for correct execution of the rotation as there are no non rng systems to build towards

The entire job is a mess and I hope the dev in charge of it is ashamed of their work because I would be in their spot.