Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[wereotter]

snip. (post regarding other jobs getting GL lite mechanics)

I would point out that Monk was, to a degree, the forerunner to a lot of the resource stacks we see on other jobs now, but its suffers from being implemented early. In Heavensward, monks got the chakra mechanic, which usually was just one or two uses was all in a fight because the only way to get them back then was to actually press the meditate button. Chakras then feel a lot like the test run for ninki, black/white mana, kenki, esprit, battery & heat, and all the other resources other jobs build up and spend. I don't know if this is a direct relation to how it was created in the first place, or just a refusal to evolve it, but while it was something new at the time, it's now the worst one of all the options since it can't over-cap. Every other job needs 50/80 of the 100 available to actually use their big skill where monk has a max stack of 5 and needs all 5 to use its skill.

I'll agree with you, though. I HATE having chakra stacks buried under layers of RNG. Not only is there a chance that I'll get a critical hit, but then it's still just a chance that the critical hit will actually give me a chakra stack. This was an even bigger slap in the face last expansion where bards had a similar mechanic, but every critical dot tick gave them a repertoire stack

[SpeckledBurd]

I would point out that Monk was, to a degree, the forerunner to a lot of the resource stacks we see on other jobs now, but its suffers from being implemented early. In Heavensward, monks got the chakra mechanic, which usually was just one or two uses was all in a fight because the only way to get them back then was to actually press the meditate button. Chakras then feel a lot like the test run for ninki, black/white mana, kenki, esprit, battery & heat, and all the other resources other jobs build up and spend. I don't know if this is a direct relation to how it was created in the first place, or just a refusal to evolve it, but while it was something new at the time, it's now the worst one of all the options since it can't over-cap. Every other job needs 50/80 of the 100 available to actually use their big skill where monk has a max stack of 5 and needs all 5 to use its skill.

I'll agree with you, though. I HATE having chakra stacks buried under layers of RNG. Not only is there a chance that I'll get a critical hit, but then it's still just a chance that the critical hit will actually give me a chakra stack. This was an even bigger slap in the face last expansion where bards had a similar mechanic, but every critical dot tick gave them a repertoire stack

I'd actually point at Warrior's ARR/HW Wrath/Abandon Stacks as the prototype for most gauges rather than Chakra. Pretty much the entire baseline was there, they actively built in combat and you could spend them on a Single Target or AOE potency dump. It's much more similar to the gauges we see on many jobs.

The point of Chakra in Heavensward was fairly clear. It really wasn't a system to begin with, you never hit it in combat because it was always worse to use it over an actual weaponskill, it was just a downtime loss mitigation tool so Monk could have a big hit after losing it's stacks and coming back. It's more of a precursor to Samurai's Meditation or Dancer's Improvisation than it is towards actual job mechanics. The fact that it had Purification attached to it is more an aspect of Purification's terrible design than it is that they conceptualized Chakra as a system IMO. Most of its problems as a gauge now can be laid at it originally being a downtime mitigation skill that was lackadasically hacked into a Gauge while still trying to cling to it's roots as mitigating downtime loss which ultimately made it unsatisfying as a gauge skill and worse for downtime.

[wereotter]

I'd actually point at Warrior's ARR/HW Wrath/Abandon Stacks as the prototype for most gauges rather than Chakra. Pretty much the entire baseline was there, they actively built in combat and you could spend them on a Single Target or AOE potency dump. It's much more similar to the gauges we see on many jobs.

The point of Chakra in Heavensward was fairly clear. It really wasn't a system to begin with, you never hit it in combat because it was always worse to use it over an actual weaponskill, it was just a downtime loss mitigation tool so Monk could have a big hit after losing it's stacks and coming back. It's more of a precursor to Samurai's Meditation or Dancer's Improvisation than it is towards actual job mechanics. The fact that it had Purification attached to it is more an aspect of Purification's terrible design than it is that they conceptualized Chakra as a system IMO. Most of its problems as a gauge now can be laid at it originally being a downtime mitigation skill that was lackadasically hacked into a Gauge while still trying to cling to it's roots as mitigating downtime loss which ultimately made it unsatisfying as a gauge skill and worse for downtime.

I never played Warrior in ARR and wasn't familiar with the job then... but I can see how that was an even earlier start to the system. Though I thought wrath stacks in ARR just provided potency buffs? I feel like I never saw warriors drop it in combat, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

But it does feel like Monk ends up being the testing ground for job mechanics that get polished when moved to other jobs while monk keeps the klunky unrefined version. Greased Lightning and Chakras being the start, the Riddle of Earth being more the precursor to Improvisation and Meditation (although monk also got Anatman for that same type of situation)

[SpeckledBurd]

I never played Warrior in ARR and wasn't familiar with the job then... but I can see how that was an even earlier start to the system. Though I thought wrath stacks in ARR just provided potency buffs? I feel like I never saw warriors drop it in combat, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

But it does feel like Monk ends up being the testing ground for job mechanics that get polished when moved to other jobs while monk keeps the klunky unrefined version. Greased Lightning and Chakras being the start, the Riddle of Earth being more the precursor to Improvisation and Meditation (although monk also got Anatman for that same type of situation)

Warrior stacks were always spent on Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone. In ARR it was common for people to sit on them because they gave a 10% increase to Parry and it was before the average mentality for players shifted toward doing as much damage as possible.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Warrior stacks were always spent on Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone. In ARR it was common for people to sit on them because they gave a 10% increase to Parry and it was before the average mentality for players shifted toward doing as much damage as possible.

The original effect was a 2% crit rate buff per stack (10% at 5 stacks). This was changed to a +2% parry per stack in HW with Abandon stacks giving +2% crit rate per stack. Even when Wrath/Abandon stacks were a dps buff losing them all from using Inner Beast/Fell Cleave or a phase transition wasn't a major dps loss.

GL on the other hand started out as some like a ~30% damage loss if it dropped, creeped up to ~33% a loss in HW and SB and is now something like a 43% damage loss if dropped. I suspect losing GL wouldn't have been such a meme if GL had been something like +5% crit rate 5% increase in speed per stack rather than a 7% to 10% flat damage boost per stack in addition to the speed increase.