Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[SpeckledBurd]

Edit: Something I just remembered, but Riddle of Fire and Brotherhood have literally no reason to be separate buttons. There's never a point where you want to use one and not the other.

Let's keep in mind though that the passive mobility bonus wouldn't have to be your only means of mobility. Similarly, if passive, but not necessarily native, the duration could easily be limited; it could instead, say, be applied only after using "Wind-based" skills, such as Tackle, Tornado Kick, or after any damaging ability at all, etc.

Yeah fair, it's easy to lose track of the broader scope when talking on a point by point basis. However I still don't think higher native movement speed will matter, nor will an additional sprint, when directly competing against skills that provide instantaneous movement across long distances.

That's fair, but my issue with merely providing Charges (with no further ICD) to a potency skill is that, well, it's resultantly more about damage than mobility. Its mobility component is just that bit that most people look back at longingly after they've already used it to maximize DPS and have since screwed up.

In other words, the added Charge is sold as mobility when in practice it just adds a thin extra layer to damage-maximization.

That's the current problem with Shoulder Tackle yes. My point was that I don't think the developers will bring back Riddle of Wind as a free tackle because that concept seems to have formed the foundation for charges on gap closers (and probably charges on actions in general).

I get the desire not to merely have the same buff by two names (although that was entirely common when one was target-specific and the other was not), but wouldn't giving the same effect via Crit/DHit end up compounding its dependence on compositions, in ways we wanted to avoid (e.g. by rehauling Chakra and revising or delimiting Brotherhood)?
Sorry if I'm nitpicking what was meant only as a spitball.

It shouldn't as long as Chakra is reubilt to not be connected to crit. At that point it just means Monk will crit 5% more than other jobs. What made previous Bard so attached to the Dragoon on top of Piercing was Battle Litany improving the proc rate of River of Blood in HW and Repertoire in SB. Monk having Internal Release in HW didn't make that dependence, it was having an additional resource that was contingent upon landing crits, as long as that interaction is gone a crit buff to the self is independent to the rest of the party.

[Sqwall]

It shouldn't as long as Chakra is reubilt to not be connected to crit. At that point it just means Monk will crit 5% more than other jobs. What made previous Bard so attached to the Dragoon on top of Piercing was Battle Litany improving the proc rate of River of Blood in HW and Repertoire in SB. Monk having Internal Release in HW didn't make that dependence, it was having an additional resource that was contingent upon landing crits, as long as that interaction is gone a crit buff to the self is independent to the rest of the party.

I agree with this as if we are to no longer have Internal Release and it's never coming back, then we need have something that isn't dependent on the whole party comp being specific. The RNG would be great IF the job complimented it fairly. We should not have to use food and gear specific stats/melds for us to get MEH chakra gains. Internal Release was so nice that I could pop it when I needed chackra fast before my riddle of fire came up. Monk needs passive crit chance buff or a skill to increase it in larger doses.

I have been in a Puppets Bunker run where I was lucky enough to be in a party of ALL monks. WOW...the comp is soooo amazing, damn near broken as we had a brotherhood/ROF buff running nearly constantly. So many forbidden's all over the place! But the next time I ran it...all casters. Brotherhood was so gimp I virtually got 2 chackra with each round of brotherhood. This can't be intentional to have 2 very huge differences in damage just with party comp.

[Shurrikhan]

Edit: Something I just remembered, but Riddle of Fire and Brotherhood have literally no reason to be separate buttons. There's never a point where you want to use one and not the other.

I feel like that might not be the case if Brotherhood's Damage component were removed and the Chakra generation furthered.

Without needing to hold Brotherhood for other's ramp-up or for its multiplicity with RoF, you'd instead want to use it first, to bank Chakra before RoF starts. But, that does indeed seem a tenuous reason to keep a second key.
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While we're on the subject, let's note that we also have zero need to keep Meditation and Form Shift as keys at all.

Form Shift can be handled passively by allowing access to (rather than moving you into) a further Form with each GCD spent off the GCD.

Meditation can be handled by passively generating a Chakra every half a GCD spent off the GCD.

The only difference would be that the two would no longer be in conflict, but that hardly seems a gameplay consideration worth spending two keys on.

Or, in this case, freeing up Meditation would allow for TFC to be spent at any amount of Chakra, thus clearing up our bankability issues; we need only spend whatever Chakra we have before the boss jumps away.

[Sqwall]

Or, in this case, freeing up Meditation would allow for TFC to be spent at any amount of Chakra, thus clearing up our bankability issues; we need only spend whatever Chakra we have before the boss jumps away.

I can't tell if your teasing the idea of having to spend chackra before a jump. Or being serious and not requiring to spend chackra before a jump. The whole disengagement argument for monk bores me as I hate that we are supposed to be the only disengage job in the game. I want to speculate and say monk disengaging and blowing all the GL it has as a last ditch effort was not the desired gameplay for the job despite who lack luster the one hit of TK truly is and if you indeed have 5 chackra before a jump. This argument is STILL pushing monk in a rigid style of game play focus on blowing your chackra and stacks before the jump. Even with anatman this isn't ideal, but that's just me.

Didn't know what your thoughts are here.

[Shurrikhan]

I can't tell if your teasing the idea of having to spend chackra before a jump. Or being serious and not requiring to spend chackra before a jump.

I meant no more than I said. The only Chakra-related interaction left would be that you spend it before the jump. That requires... spending it before the jump, just as one would with Repertoire, direct-damage CDs normally banked for damage-window CDs you'd otherwise end up holding too long, etc.

That means all the other BS is gone, i.e.

Previously, we literally had no good fit between boss jumps and Chakra; it was purely a matter of luck.
4 Chakra and boss jumps? Well, guess I'm getting only 74 downtime potency this jump (4 Chakra effectively wasted).
Chakra jumped right after using a newly available TFC? Cool. That's a an extra 296 potency I just net myself, through no skill of my own.

So, again, that BS RNG-based interaction with fight mechanics/timings is now gone. We're left instead with, say, the much fairer interactions of a Bard -- pop Perfect Pitch before the boss jumps and chances are you'll have another before the boss returns.

At that point, Monk would not be unique in regard to disengage-related considerations; Dancer, Ninja, BLM, Samurai (though Shoha would actually be worse than TFC now), and any job with high amount of oGCD banking potential would have it just as bad (or, involve just as much gameplay).

At "worst", like Samurai, Monk would just have something to do during the boss-jump while everyone else just idles (Anatman, in place of Meditate).

:: You already know my stance on Tornado Kick and Anatman, but that's rather out of scope for what was purely an de-clunk-ifying improvement to Meditation itself. If you want me to restate them, I will, but I don't see how I've been slyly ambiguous or disingenuous in wanting this simple intuitive improvement to Meditation/Chakra/TFC.