Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Shurrikhan]

I don’t see how you can write all that and not realize that GL is being forced as a mechanic.

If it changes absolutely nothing about the way you play, it is not a mechanic. Since ARR, there has been no skillful maintenance of GL required to perform well in raids. Unlike in T9 and perhaps T7, in HW (with GL's extended duration) breaks have been either so long that TK was just free potency or so short that TK wasn't viable. At that point, it was a mechanic that rendered yet another skill niche, a mere compensation for an above-average ramp-up (a tax more than a "mechanic") over which you had no effective control. Only with later SB did it finally enhance the toolkit rather than merely detract from it, by offering conditional weights, values, and points of decision -- finally becoming a mechanic. Whether that was intended or not has absolutely no effect on the result. It happened, and it was the most interactive and effective design GL had yet taken, especially since its 10-second duration back in ARR.

You’re advocating for a nuance that at this point doesn’t exist.

None of what any of us are advocating for exist. That's why we're advocating for them. The only difference is that what I'm asking for has previous existed, before being effectively removed by changes to GL and DK.

And what would I propose? A full rework. Idk how but all of these imo just don’t seem to hold any weight in value and are just there because MNK “needed” something it make it “different” from the rest.

Addendum: MNK as it stands is not a brawler by any comparison. It just punches things. Its a PUG pretending to be a MNK. I'd rather see MNK be a brawler with a high risk/high reward approach not by "losing" its main source of power.

And I'm all for that. I'm just not for not allowing speed variance to ever be a mechanic, as by making it a passive rather than a manipulable. That's not to say it's currently a manipulable. That's not to say it ever has been, except in the hands of particular SkS breakpoints in combination with RoF's slow. But it has been used to good effect at many SkS breakpoints during the times of ToD/Fracture and easily could be again with even minor changes to GL and a rework of DK/LF. Heck, Meditation and SSS could easily be pulled out of the mud by those same, relatively minor, changes. Not that I would stop there.

To me, Monk should have burst, but burst largely of their own making rather than merely on set timers. Set timers can still push the rotation forward and demand sync therearound, adding to rhythm and giving clear initial targets for optimization, but the complexity of Monk should come from decisions made to prepare for an around those targets rather than on just hitting them on cooldown (making what is usually the "lull" the most cognitively engaging part, and the "highs" merely a sweet, sweet drag of satisfaction as it all clicks as intended).

In my preference, it should be wholly viable, but not quite optimal, to stay at full speed at all times, if one wants to play more consistently. No gambling, no huge risk-reward systems that would ever have you drop speed, are required for getting even to the 80th percentile or so, or doing a good 90% of optimal damage.

The rule of thumb for all but the highest levels of gameplay could be "Tap into GL(/Ki/Chakra/whatever), but never so much that you level down (to a lower stack count)," just as "Feel free to burst into a lower GL count if your Twin/DK/Demo durations would otherwise be excessive and you have no further oGCDs to cast within the rotational string" might be a nuance learned early on that adds to, rather than detracts from, flexibility and nuance of play.

On all other parts, I agree with you. I just think manipulating speed could be a hugely lucrative mechanic for Monk if it were just utilized as an actual mechanic rather than a passive with a ramp-up "Monk tax" that enforces a bunch of otherwise bloat skills.

[Mahrze]

On all other parts, I agree with you. I just think manipulating speed could be a hugely lucrative mechanic for Monk if it were just utilized as an actual mechanic rather than a passive with a ramp-up "Monk tax" that enforces a bunch of otherwise bloat skills.

And I don't disagree with it being lucrative or something that can have benefits tied to. But based on what you can find as feedback with most posts from SB and onwards until they removed the slowdown from RoF, is that the slowdown was quite unwelcome, just like SSS's slowdown.

[Ramura_Sono]

And I'm all for that. I'm just not for not allowing speed variance to ever be a mechanic...

In my preference, it should be wholly viable, but not quite optimal, to stay at full speed at all times, if one wants to play more consistently. No gambling, no huge risk-reward systems that would ever have you drop speed, are required for getting even to the 80th percentile or so, or doing a good 90% of optimal damage...

I just think manipulating speed could be a hugely lucrative mechanic for Monk if it were just utilized as an actual mechanic rather than a passive with a ramp-up "Monk tax" that enforces a bunch of otherwise bloat skills.

Except you're trying to suggest it for a job with players that have historically hated the variability of speed within the rotation. Though I'd expect if the manipulation of speed was for the job to go faster rather than slower it'd see more acceptance amongst the playerbase. You ask people to specify what they enjoy about the job, yet ignore what they've hated about it. The majority of monk players want to go fast and stay fast. Why do you consistently ignore that fact? Pushing the manipulation of speed as a Monk mechanic will at best be enjoyed to the same degree as the TK rotation -which itself was more enjoyed for the fact it made use of nearly all of monks skills rather than any other aspect or nuance- and at worst drive even more of it's remaining players away.

Pushing for something that has consistently been hated by the majority of Monks players in an attempt to return any semblance of it's past nuances is foolish.
Let's be honest here. The vast majority of people aren't playing or not playing jobs for the minutia in the nuances of play they provide. It's all about the core play style and feel of the job.

As far as TK just being Monk Foul. Why is that a problem? Homogeneity? If so where's your complaints about Dragoon and Black Mage. After all at a base level they're both homogeneous in the fact they are rewarded for the upkeep of a maintenance buff. Or is the fact that the manner in which they build up towards, and the reward itself different enough to seperate them. If so, why is the same not possible for Monk? You could do something as simple as executing x gcds in each fist stance with the order of the fist stances resulting in differing effects for TK if not a different skill altogether.