Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Shurrikhan]

Maybe DWAD isn't a good example as I somewhat agree. But that's an example that can be replicated across multiple DPS jobs which MNK simply falls behind on. Jump proccing mirage dive comes to mind.

...Isn't that just a significantly better version of Assassinate, if only due to having 50% more activation duration, to make it more flexible, and having StarDiver running off a similar bank-and-use-at-the-opportune-moment theme? You use a button to unlock another skill when you could have as easily combined the buttons, since the first will never be usable within 15 seconds of the second falling out of usability.

What I mean is NIN's main thing it has going is Ninki and Ninjutsu and huton to a much lesser extent. There is much more synergy within NINs core identity than there is in MNKs.

I agree that one thing NIN has always done right is to play off its former tools.

Raiton his hard? Well how about auto-critting it? Normally waste the initial mudras to cast a complex one?
Well how about comboing them into each other for a single-dual-tri Ninjutsu chain?
Aeolian hits like a truck compared to other skills (obviously no longer the case)? How about a second one for free?
Sacrificing a (usually too early, on-cooldown, or currently in use) TA window for another burst skill (to slip into that TA's bonus damage)? Why not?

That's... pretty decent design, to say the least, and they pushed similar enough ideas in optimization (macrorotation, mostly, insofar as sync, margins, and more immediate setup), and until recently doubled down on a particular style (oGCD-filled, high apm, and precise more than spammy). That makes a compelling design.

(Personally, I preferred when those came with weaknesses as well, such as Kassatsu resetting the Ninjutsu cooldown rather than adding an additional charge, but I'm probably alone in that.)

Now, I agree with each of your complaints on Monk. Again, I'm not arguing that Monk is good, only that really strong synergies, like... Leaden Fist... can as easily go wrong as right, so we should be careful of chasing a buzzword over than its resultant gameplay.

I've written a few "How I would do Monk" threads over the years, but for now the short of it is...

• Return Crits to a flat 50% damage bonus, but have excess chances increase effectiveness instead. For instance, a 120% crit chance (e.g. a Bootshine with a native 20% crit chance) would have a 60% bonus damage modifier (50% *120% = 60%).
• Increase the relative value of positionals (this would be for all melee though, as 40 potency for Monk is already almost 60 potency for everyone else), but return position-less skills (similar to Fracture and ToD back in the day, but with less of a maintenance aspect while maintaining wastefulness if used too often. OR revamp the form-cycle system entirely to something truly unique.
• Reduce the total value of DK-Leaden Fist over double Bootshine, apart from wanting to maximize its output in damage windows, to amount to about a positional bonus. It's therefore a worthwhile optimization around damage buffs, but a soft optimization that can be flexed or sacrificed to prep a TFC earlier. OR change DK completely.
• Remove GL4 as a mere increased-delay/increased-punishment mechanic. It will be replaced with funner things that offer more agency.
• Merge Chakra into GL, which is now a system similar to HW's expendable BotD, but still tiered. GL is still ranked up instantly by Coeurl up to GL3, but its timer can also be extended by any and all relative potency dealt. You can then spend excess timer to accelerate your oGCDs (use them before they're refreshed). This means that you can build up a bank large enough to use TK at the start of burst CDs, get a bunch back from the TK itself to bounce back to GL2 or even lose no GL depending on how much excess timer you have, go hog over the buff's duration, finish with another TK that will bounce you back to GL1 on its own, and the PB right back to GL3.
• Fixed ("Fists of") stances are gone. Instead, you generate elemental... essence, or whatever you want to call it, from your oGCDs. Those elemental effects are now... quite significant. Steel Peak, Wind Step (a renamed Shoulder Tackle), and Red Lotus added while TFC, Howling Fist, and Elixir Field become essence-dynamic. These offer significant combo opportunities between themselves and in interaction with your rotation (especially via Fire's DoT mechanic, which allows for banking and Wind's Haste mechanic) or the fight occurring around you (from which Earth can absorb raw potency to be used in your own strikes). Fill-and-spend-and-fill-and-spend play gone, replaced by choices and synergistic flow. Internal Release returned and now plays into these essences, effectively replacing Riddle of Fire, Riddle of Earth, and Riddle of Wind in a more dynamic way that integrates better with the setup from your elemental skills. (Keep in mind these are simply called Adamantine, Gale, and Red Lotus stance in Japanese, so they shouldn't be going so far as being tangibly elemental, only reminiscent in style.)
• In summary: Clunk = bad. Excessive ramp-up = bad. Gimmicks = bad. Unusable skills = bad. Modular control = good. Positional control and setup = good. oGCD choice and flow = good. Macrorotation that doesn't revolve around just one ability = good. Seems fair?

[MerlinCross]

...Isn't that just a significantly better version of Assassinate, if only due to having 50% more activation duration, to make it more flexible, and having StarDiver running off a similar bank-and-use-at-the-opportune-moment theme? You use a button to unlock another second.

There's also the fact Mirage Dive feeds into Dragoon's Job Gauge where as Assassinate does.... jack all. I know this is a MNK topic but out of all the things to not get axed on Ninja is Assassinate, really? I don't think it's been relevant to our kit/lore at all so why keep it around?

On Topic, from the outside looking in and a couple attempts to play the Job, it does feel the most weird/different of the Jobs to me. Something's off about it but I can't bring myself to get it to higher levels to even figure out what I find off about it.

[Shurrikhan]

There's also the fact Mirage Dive feeds into Dragoon's Job Gauge where as Assassinate does.... jack all. I know this is a MNK topic but out of all the things to not get axed on Ninja is Assassinate, really? I don't think it's been relevant to our kit/lore at all so why keep it around?

I mean, I'd like to keep what little apm remains, so I'd most want it to just be either (1) retooled to again be usable against low-HP enemies, and preferably generate some Ninki, while being unlocked against an enemy regardless of HP for a free charge after DWaD or (2) hotswap into DWaD's place for its 10 seconds' activation time after the prior has been used. Removal wouldn't be a noticeable blow after the blunt force trauma of the unnecessary slow-downs, though.

[MerlinCross]

I mean, I'd like to keep what little apm remains, so I'd most want it to just be either (1) retooled to again be usable against low-HP enemies, and preferably generate some Ninki, while being unlocked against an enemy regardless of HP for a free charge after DWaD or (2) hotswap into DWaD's place for its 10 seconds' activation time after the prior has been used. Removal wouldn't be a noticeable blow after the blunt force trauma of the unnecessary slow-downs, though.

There's keeping it because it's effective and fun and keeping it because "Well we need to push a button here or else it feels slow". Like if it did more than just damage maybe it wouldn't feel so empty and wasted of a slot(Cough, Assassinate is Jugulate locked behind another timer).

Oddly I think MNK kinda has that same problem of wanting to hold onto things as is without trying to future proof/work with new parts. But again, my experience and info is second hand but it just sounds weird all they've tried to keep for MNK.