Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[MerlinCross]

...Isn't that just a significantly better version of Assassinate, if only due to having 50% more activation duration, to make it more flexible, and having StarDiver running off a similar bank-and-use-at-the-opportune-moment theme? You use a button to unlock another second.

There's also the fact Mirage Dive feeds into Dragoon's Job Gauge where as Assassinate does.... jack all. I know this is a MNK topic but out of all the things to not get axed on Ninja is Assassinate, really? I don't think it's been relevant to our kit/lore at all so why keep it around?

On Topic, from the outside looking in and a couple attempts to play the Job, it does feel the most weird/different of the Jobs to me. Something's off about it but I can't bring myself to get it to higher levels to even figure out what I find off about it.

[Shurrikhan]

There's also the fact Mirage Dive feeds into Dragoon's Job Gauge where as Assassinate does.... jack all. I know this is a MNK topic but out of all the things to not get axed on Ninja is Assassinate, really? I don't think it's been relevant to our kit/lore at all so why keep it around?

I mean, I'd like to keep what little apm remains, so I'd most want it to just be either (1) retooled to again be usable against low-HP enemies, and preferably generate some Ninki, while being unlocked against an enemy regardless of HP for a free charge after DWaD or (2) hotswap into DWaD's place for its 10 seconds' activation time after the prior has been used. Removal wouldn't be a noticeable blow after the blunt force trauma of the unnecessary slow-downs, though.

[MerlinCross]

I mean, I'd like to keep what little apm remains, so I'd most want it to just be either (1) retooled to again be usable against low-HP enemies, and preferably generate some Ninki, while being unlocked against an enemy regardless of HP for a free charge after DWaD or (2) hotswap into DWaD's place for its 10 seconds' activation time after the prior has been used. Removal wouldn't be a noticeable blow after the blunt force trauma of the unnecessary slow-downs, though.

There's keeping it because it's effective and fun and keeping it because "Well we need to push a button here or else it feels slow". Like if it did more than just damage maybe it wouldn't feel so empty and wasted of a slot(Cough, Assassinate is Jugulate locked behind another timer).

Oddly I think MNK kinda has that same problem of wanting to hold onto things as is without trying to future proof/work with new parts. But again, my experience and info is second hand but it just sounds weird all they've tried to keep for MNK.

[Malmstrom]

I would move chakras off of crit RNG and scatter them throughout landing positionals so that there is some synergy between positionals and chakra building.

I actually really like that idea.

I was leaning more towards 100% chakra generation on crit instead. There would still be an element of RNG, but at least not double.

Both, I think, would require a potency nerf to the spenders, but being able to have it more often to weave into your attacks would make it feel a lot better.

[3ureka]

I've only mainly leveled up physical dps classes, but are there any jobs that have a similar "double rng" gate?

[SpeckledBurd]

I've only mainly leveled up physical dps classes, but are there any jobs that have a similar "double rng" gate?

Currently no, previously Bard had a chance to proc it's Repertoire stacks off of its dots Critting. They removed it because it made Bard synergize too heavily with Dragoon and Scholar.

Monk didn't get the same treatment when it came to being overly dependent on party comp through that (And Brotherhood for physical comps) because of course it didn't.

I actually really like that idea.

I was leaning more towards 100% chakra generation on crit instead. There would still be an element of RNG, but at least not double.

Both, I think, would require a potency nerf to the spenders, but being able to have it more often to weave into your attacks would make it feel a lot better.

The problem with any degree of RNG on Chakra is that it inherently works against Meditate's ability to act to mitigate down time loss. Considering Meditate is technically Monk's ranged skill at the moment, thats a problem. If we have no control over the rate at which we build Chakra, it's possible and likely that we will disengage from the boss and be unable to make the most of time spent away because we have Chakra already banked.

[Malmstrom]

The problem with any degree of RNG on Chakra is that it inherently works against Meditate's ability to act to mitigate down time loss. Considering Meditate is technically Monk's ranged skill at the moment, thats a problem. If we have no control over the rate at which we build Chakra, it's possible and likely that we will disengage from the boss and be unable to make the most of time spent away because we have Chakra already banked.

Yeah, but the RNG would at least be alleviated some by the guaranteed Bootshine crit.

[Ramura_Sono]

Currently no, previously Bard had a chance to proc it's Repertoire stacks off of its dots Critting. They removed it because it made Bard synergize too heavily with Dragoon and Scholar.

Even when Bard's procs were based on crits, they were weren't double rng like monk. Bard had a 100% to proc on dot crits, with 2 dots ticking every 3 seconds.

The fact the dev's admitted they had no idea what to do with monk in Stormblood, and then proceeded to not put in an ounce of thought into the job in the 2 years between expansions, resulting in us getting more of the same garbage we complained about in Shadowbringers is pathetic. Shameful. If the Devs care so little about Monk, then they should hire someone from the community that actually gives a toss about the job. Or delete it entirely since they seem to be uninterested in giving it the same treatment as any other job.

[SpeckledBurd]

Even when Bard's procs were based on crits, they were weren't double rng like monk. Bard had a 100% to proc on dot crits, with 2 dots ticking every 3 seconds.

The fact the dev's admitted they had no idea what to do with monk in Stormblood, and then proceeded to not put in an ounce of thought into the job in the 2 years between expansions, resulting in us getting more of the same garbage we complained about in Shadowbringers is pathetic. Shameful. If the Devs care so little about Monk, then they should hire someone from the community that actually gives a toss about the job. Or delete it entirely since they seem to be uninterested in giving it the same treatment as any other job.

Ah the error was mine then, but it's sort of splitting hairs. I was thinking of the pre-Stormblood River of Blood trait which was basically the Mage's Ballad Repertoire effect with only a 50% chance to proc on a crit but being up full time.

And I more or less agree even if I won't go into it again in this thread for the fourth or fifth time, though I'd rather they not delete the job. Monk is one of the original Final Fanatasy Jobs right there with White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, Ninja and Warrior. You'd hope they'd be able to do right by it.

Yeah, but the RNG would at least be alleviated some by the guaranteed Bootshine crit.

It would be alleviated, but the manner in which the Deep Meditation Traits work against Meditation as our "ranged" skill would remain. Even with it proccing off a guaranteed bootshine there would still exist crits outside of that, so Monk would still be relying upon a Scholar and a Dragoon in the party to perform optimally and have instances where it would enter down phases and be unable to make effective use of meditate.

The fact is Chakra as a gauge was never properly made into an actual gauge in the way that other systems like Warrior's Wrath Stacks were converted into gauge. It's still rooted in the design of a downtime mitigation skill.

[Gorondu]

I would like Form Shift to always reset Grease Lightning outside of combat. Would lessen that endless stomping in dungeons by quite a bit. 20 instead of 16 seconds grease lightning would also be welcome. Thank you