Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Jirah]

after playing MNK for a bit after the 5.4 changes I kinda wish they Morphed Riddle of Fire & Perfect Balance into one there’s way to much to press and not in a organized way either. Elixir and Tornado are baseless and the 3 buffs along with Forbidden chakra and your Leaden Bootshine feel clunky to execute

Twin snakes needs a little icon IE Dancer Standard Finish where it’s blatant and big do you know how much time you have due to very tight windows

Also Forbidden Chakra is stupidly niche in lower end content. You have literally no way to earn Chakra until Lv62 which feels incredibly off.

Riddle of Earth should work the same way as Perfect Balance ie Giving you stacks per move

Besides the obvious stuff like Anatman being useless still and MNK generally being bland compared to its cousins NIN,DRG and SAM. The rework is just a platform that I hope they rejuvenate the job

[Sqwall]

after playing MNK for a bit after the 5.4 changes I kinda wish they Morphed Riddle of Fire & Perfect Balance into one there’s way to much to press and not in a organized way either. Elixir and Tornado are baseless and the 3 buffs along with Forbidden chakra and your Leaden Bootshine feel clunky to execute

Twin snakes needs a little icon IE Dancer Standard Finish where it’s blatant and big do you know how much time you have due to very tight windows

Also Forbidden Chakra is stupidly niche in lower end content. You have literally no way to earn Chakra until Lv62 which feels incredibly off.

Riddle of Earth should work the same way as Perfect Balance ie Giving you stacks per move

Besides the obvious stuff like Anatman being useless still and MNK generally being bland compared to its cousins NIN,DRG and SAM. The rework is just a platform that I hope they rejuvenate the job

I agree with this. Monk is and isn't in a good spot as far as where it will go. It's in a good spot that GL is gone and less to punish monk's. It's also in a bad spot of tweaking and fixing until we hit 6.0 which is still nearly a year away from launch. I would like to see riddle of fire absorb perfect balance also. Anatman is still useless, but has it's uses compared to form shift unless, which it needs to be an oGCD and no longer channeled that way I can weave it after 3rd perfect balance charge.

I too have also found there is to much to press in the opener and is clunky along with positionals. I love the speed of monk, and it feels perfect now with GL stacks gone. Just need some fine tuning after this massive change. It leaves me hopeful for 5.5 and 6.0.

It seems Twin Snakes took the place of GL honestly.

[Xau]

kinda wish they Morphed Riddle of Fire & Perfect Balance into one

is better if they mix both riddle of fire and brotherhood rather than riddle of fire and perfect balance, even tho they al 3 are used one after other, perfect balance does a slight diferent function than the other 2, or do you want riddle of fire disapear after 6 hits?, i do not

[Shurrikhan]

after playing MNK for a bit after the 5.4 changes I kinda wish they Morphed Riddle of Fire & Perfect Balance into one there’s way to much to press and not in a organized way either.

I absolutely disagree. The whole point of Blitz is to optimize filler space with LF (or, conversely, maximize Demo/Twin durations), which means you'll want to build it around your regular rotation. You don't want to have to sacrifice PB to put up an empowered Demolish or milk a Leaden Fist you'd already have been in form for.

Brotherhood, in turn, has its own reasons to be separate -- namely, anti-synergy with Opo-Opo forms. Since OO forms would proc Chakra regardless, for shorter fights you'd want to sync Brotherhood away from OO and your Lunar LF fills (or rather, you'd want to use your Solar Blitzes in such a way as to reduce OO form count under Brotherhood).

PB itself is incredibly appropriate and nuanced in its length at 3 GCDs (at least, following the addition of Blitz) in the context of a 15s Twin and 18s Demolish. There's so much more to optimize now, rotationally -- even more than back when ToD and Fracture were a thing.

PB just needs to give Formless Fist upon consuming its last stack, instead of only after using the Blitz, and likely to be reduced to a 27-35s CD.

[Jirah]

Breathing room, i can tell theyll overdo it and have both be like 90 second buffs if not delete 40% of the jobs to continue the devs trend of dumbing down jobs. I wanna be proven wrong but AST and MChH and most of the jobs dont convince me otherwise

Just wanna say, totally called it

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

I had been to post this in another thread, but I will put it in here, as well... Have a pair of ideas from me.

Six Sided Star re-design idea

First, a buff to Six Sided Star’s potency, so that it hits for the exact same potency of any two normal GCDs, to make Six Sided Star damage neutral. This will give the Monk the free choice to either use three normal GCDs, or use one normal GCD and Six Sided Star, as the two options will have the same damage potential.

Additionally, Six Sided Star will grant one stack of the passive self-buff “Celestial Fist”, which will have a 10 second duration, and the effect of Celestial Fist will be: “allows the execution of a WeaponSkill that requires a certain form, without being in that form, and any additional effects that the action has will also activate, which includes to change form.” Celestial Fist will be able to pair with Perfect Balance, as well.

This makes it so that Six Sided Star could replace two normal GCDs as a valid alternative to a 1-2-3 rotation, but only as a free choice, as the normal 1-2-3 rotation will also still be a free choice, since the two options are equal in damage, and a neutral choice. As a side note, my ideal Monk would have oGCDs, to use after Six Sided Star, to make up for and take advantage of to consolidate two GCDs into one bigger GCD.

As for the numbers... BootShine(210), Leaden BootShine(310), True Strike(300), Snap Punch(250/310), Twin Snakes(280), Demolish(490/550), Dragon Kick(320). First, Demolish potency is too high, because of the DoT, so Six Sided Star should never replace Demolish, and only have Celestial Fist lead into Demolish. That said...

If we account for every possible combination of two, we get 490 as the minimum, and 630 as the maximum, where Six Sided Star is already 550, so.. by my estimate, Six Sided Star’s potency would need to increase to at least 590, if not higher, to be damage neutral with two GCDs. Celestial Fist could lead from Six Sided Star, and refresh either Disciplined Fist or Demolish’s DoT, while also have a potential rotation between refresh points, with Six Sided Star into Dragon Kick and Leaden Fist, into Six Sided Star again, with Leaden BootShine next, and loop from there...

All that said, Six Sided Star would be a optional alternative normal rotation, only outside of Perfect Balance and Blitz, as there would be no Beast Chakra from Six Sided Star.

Anatman re-design idea

If you do some quick research on the actual definition of Anatman, and what the reference is, you will come to find that it refers to a doctrine of Buddhism, which is "anattā", or "anātman", of which means "non-self", or "substanceless". This Doctrine states: "that no unchanging, permanent self or essence can be found in any phenomenon. that there is in humans no permanent, underlying substance that can be called the soul. Instead, the individual is compounded of five factors that are constantly changing."

So... If I were to base the in-game action Anatman, off of its source, to be honest... I think that it should serve the same purpose as Perfect Balance, and allow us to ignore the form requirements, to skirt around the combo system and use what ever actions that we want.

It could be a separate action that is more effective than Perfect Balance, which is what I would prefer, or Perfect Balance could even upgrade into a new Anatman, via high-level trait. My idea is some thing like the new Anatman could be more effective than Perfect Balance, but have a much larger CD.

for a example... Anatman grants six stacks of anattā, each stack the same as Perfect Balance stacks, but also with the Formless Fist effect, and a high enough duration, that the Monk can use three stacks, use a Blitz, then use the other three stacks, and use another Blitz, to gain both Nadi, and jump straight to the third bigger Blitz.
The new Anatman would essentially be two Perfect Balances in one, and allow for a immediate jump into a triple Blitz burst, while also have the Formless Fist effect, so that Twin Snakes still applies Disciplined Fist, and Demolish still applies its DoT.

[Shurrikhan]

A brief plug:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-NuMonk-Rework

[meowmaou]

I think MNK was closer to finding its groove near the end of ShB, before the EW changes. Some of the EW changes are nice, but they definitely overshot it by removing positionals and oGCDs.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

positional requirements aside, as Monk players can and will argue about that until the cows come home, I feel like, what are to me at least, the more important problems, are what need to be dealt with first... I know that other Monks have already been to talk about it, but I may as well add my opinion onto the pile.

Monk needs more oGCDs than just Chakra RNG, as their is no such thing as to rely on The Forbidden Chakra to be constant enough. Monk feels slow, now, because without oGCDs and regular weave, the illusion of speed has been lost.

Blitz also needs some tweaks. The obvious tweak is to reduce the CD of Perfect Balance down to 30 seconds, and I have seen several Monks say this, which I agree with, and then there is the issue of GCD versus oGCD; with which that I have seen several other Monk players all agree on that Blitzes should be oGCDs. I am not certain about that one, myself, but I trust the word of my fellow Monks.

these two bigger issues aside, I personally think that the Chakra resource itself needs a redesign, to make Chakra more interactive and more of interest(I have a extensive redesign concept for this already written. :Pc), and I also have the controversial opinion that the original Greased Lightning needs to come back.

I also think that Anatman should be given a redesign, Six Sided Star I think is only up for debate, since it is a fair disengage tool, and uh.. Riddles of Earth and Wind? are you two alright? first, Riddle of Earth is kind of awkward, now... I think that for the stacks to be lost when a WeaponSkill is used, should be removed from it.

And Riddle of Wind, I just find to be a terrible bore, and do not see the point of it, all that much. It could at least have a CD of 60 or 120 seconds, just for starters, while I would like to see it either do some thing more of interest, or have a additional effect aside from to increase the frequency of auto-attacks, so that it does some thing more than just that.

[Shurrikhan]

positional requirements aside, as Monk players can and will argue about that until the cows come home, I feel like, what are to me at least, the more important problems, are what need to be dealt with first... I know that other Monks have already been to talk about it, but I may as well add my opinion onto the pile.

Monk needs more oGCDs than just Chakra RNG, as their is no such thing as to rely on The Forbidden Chakra to be constant enough. Monk feels slow, now, because without oGCDs and regular weave, the illusion of speed has been lost.

I'm not sure it needs more oGCD skills. I was initially super pissed about the loss of rotational Elixir Field, as I was about Steel Peak, Howling Fist, and the like back in the day, but after playing without them I've noticed that the number of oGCD presses itself matters far more to me than the variety of oGCDs to separately track. And at this point it does feel, mostly via BS and SotD (and later Brotherhood), that we do have decent control over Chakra intake -- even to the point I'd have no issues with their RNG if our weaponskills just resolved (dealt their damage and gave their Chakra) at more consistent pace.

I don't see why TFC should need to be "constant". Having it being "reliable", on the other hand, only requires a banking margin. If Chakra, for instance, had a maximum of 7 while TFC still cost 5, or if TFC spent 3+ Chakra, it'd be reliable.

I also think that Anatman should be given a redesign, Six Sided Star I think is only up for debate, since it is a fair disengage tool, and uh.. Riddles of Earth and Wind? and you two alright? first, Riddle of Earth is kind of awkward, now... I think that for the stacks to be lost when a WeaponSkill is used, should be removed from it.

I just want to see Anatman and SSS smoothed out. Make SSS an oGCD that adds a GCD's time to your existing time until GCD-refresh.
Take Anatman off the GCD and give it two charges but nerf it slightly to compensate (have it simply inverse drain on Discipline Fist and forms, increasing their durations until they hit maximum, while generating a stack of Meditation per second completed after GCD refresh).
Remove the action-based cap from RoE.
Riddle of Wind... maybe put it on a 45s CD instead --so it at least feels like it's adding apm, if not impact-- or rework it entirely.