Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Imshail]

If the previous patches didn't already clue you in I'd say there's not much of a chance of the devs actually listening, the job is a mess and will probably remain a mess in the future because the devs simply don't care enough to fix even minor issues let alone blatant ones.

[Eva-Shogouki]

And shouldn't have to wait 'til 6.0 or later to get it.

As much as I'd LOVE a Monk rework I'm not sure it's likely to happen during ShB.

[Shurrikhan]

Those rotations, in my understanding, were more to cover flaws caused by lack of a 2nd viable formless gcd to fill in holes in the core rotation created by higher sks and GL. The rotation was fairly solid at 2.06 gcd (29 gcds per minute), but buffs and dots started clipping or falling off (depending on rotation) bellow that necessitating use of Cross-class weaponskills (of which Fracture being the best available at the time).

The entire way Ninja played optimally for three versions of the game was likewise in large part called 'unintended'. That didn't stop it from being fun, though, or having far more rotational choice and complexity than it has now.

I might even go so far as to say that having "flaws", where a job is balanced both despite them and if/when having "fixed" them, is often better than an originally "perfect" rotation as it at least allows for choice and flexibility.
We saw this with early Chaos Thrust, Demolish in either timing, the excess duration on SAM buffs, and the duration of Shadowfang (itself, in SB, and alongside Mutilate prior to that): in ARR, a higher speed variant allowed for an additional Full Thrust per Chaos and in HW it allowed for the 'Geirskogul-abusing' 2.33s rotation that was so fun in cleave, even if inferior to the 2.40 for pure single-target; until ShB one could use uptime-loss counts from longer Ninjutsu uses to trim or delay Shadowfang, eventually allowing for another Aeolian per minute and decreased SF clip once per minute and decreased SF delay another time per minute via increased Fuma usage; the increasingly excessive SAM buffs likewise allowed for trims and potency shifts around Meikyo Shisui -- all things that increased both the flexibility or number of rotational strings available and the skill ceiling for each affected job.

Note also that none of these things were permanent changes except at very specific GCDs -- they didn't usually involve just swapping one rotation for another. Instead, they increased the number of rotational strings available. One string might go over the DoT timer, trying to reapply it just before the next global tick after it had faded, while the next might try to rush it out, preferring to waste some DoT duration than risk missing a global tick. Having different parts to align, by which to encourage adaptation and variance, is a powerful tool for gameplay. And pursuing above all a single "way it's supposed to work", rather than a sliding set of choices over varying SkSs (with still multiple choices over time for any given GCD) kills that design tool.

[Noctisnine]

Well I've been trying to play either dragoon or ninja in savage content after just playing monk for like 2 years and let me tell you its rough! Monk movement speed being naturally fast due to fist of wind and shoulder tackle plus riddle of earth buff is quite nice and make the fights so much easier, I just wanted to have some impactful skills like stardive or midare, six sided star is so underwhelming, the best skill we have is tornado kick and we barely use it...It's so sad to play monk.

[Imshail]

I really wish they'd give whoever was behind monk in PVP the reigns on the job design of monk in PVE, the job ironically enough seems to flow better in PVP than it does in PVE

[SpeckledBurd]

As much as I'd LOVE a Monk rework I'm not sure it's likely to happen during ShB.

It most likely isn't, there's a small chance for something in 5.3 but thats typically the point where they say that any changes will be delayed until the next expansion.

However to quote myself from earlier in the thread on this exact matter:

I don’t think Monk needs a full rework either, but waiting until 6.0 for any kinds of changes to Monks kit is literally making Monk wait two full expansions before there's a chance for the players to be satisfied with it. That's insane, especially when so many other jobs have gotten substantial changes in 5.1. Some might say that Monk has seen fixes already, but the 5.05 stuff only fixed a small handful of the problems with the job. They finally fixed the Riddle of Fire slow which is undeniably a good change, but it can't be forgotten that they for whatever reason intended to leave that in for 5.X until the playerbase expressed its displeasure. But largely it was just done to make Monk playable in dungeons with the Formshift changes, because 5.0 Monk in dungeons was miserable. Meanwhile 5.1 stuff flat out made one of the few remaining use cases for Anatman feel awful every time and by and large just reversed any goodwill 5.05 gave Monk.

The fact of the matter is Stormblood Monk was so disliked that the devs admitted that it was a misstep that dissatisfied people in all of the Shadowbringers prerelease press discussion that brought it up, and everything they produced for Monk on Shadowbringers Launch was even worse to the point where it was the worst received DPS by a huge margin. They're basically two full expansions behind with the job at this point and if it isn't a priority for them to fix it ASAP then it should be.

[Todhaseo]

Welp 5.2 Didn't have anything for MNKs at all. I guess this is the expansion where I drop MNK for DRG,ive waited for 2 major patches and nothing,no changes or adjustments. See you at 6.0!

[Imshail]

Another disappointing patch, yay!

[Noctisnine]

Yeap monk got 0 love, they did a bad job with how monk works right now but they still ignore us over and over again. I guess the number of people playing monk will only get low and lower from here.

[Ramura_Sono]

Hey, at least we got PvP nerfs.