Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[3ureka]

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In regards to introducing TFC before Deep Meditation, I think that might've been more of an archaic design choice. My immediate thought goes to NIN and Trick Attack, and how that was (for all intents and purposes) locked until you learned Suiton. I'm just speculating, but I imagine the reason for delaying the introduction of Deep Meditation and Suiton so late is due to the story tied with both jobs. Well, tbh, I don't remember the exact details of Deep Meditation and if there was even a big deal about it in MNK's story (it's been literal years since then); NIN's story is more fresh in my mind (capped it this expansion).

[Mahrze]

In regards to introducing TFC before Deep Meditation, I think that might've been more of an archaic design choice. My immediate thought goes to NIN and Trick Attack, and how that was (for all intents and purposes) locked until you learned Suiton. I'm just speculating, but I imagine the reason for delaying the introduction of Deep Meditation and Suiton so late is due to the story tied with both jobs. Well, tbh, I don't remember the exact details of Deep Meditation and if there was even a big deal about it in MNK's story (it's been literal years since then); NIN's story is more fresh in my mind (capped it this expansion).

Chakra's are as early as ARR job quests iirc. It the whole reason Widargelt offers to "train you". Cuz he wants another MNK to help him open his chakras. But most of this ends up moot since they don't really bother to design things around the leveling curve. All is about the end game.

Edit: yeah, just checked the ff wiki for the mnk xiv story. It is since then. Lvl 60 job quest gives ytou the title "of the 14th Chakra". Its the one people keep using as a cornerstone on how MNK has 5 available chakras as a gameplay but we somehow have unlocked all 14 and don't have it as a resource and what not.

[3ureka]

Chakra's are as early as ARR job quests iirc. It the whole reason Widargelt offers to "train you". Cuz he wants another MNK to help him open his chakras. But most of this ends up moot since they don't really bother to design things around the leveling curve. All is about the end game.

Yeah. I think Square would have to rewrite quite a few things if they wanted all the jobs to feel good while leveling to cap.

Also, thoughts on something like this for monk?:
So, since we're heavily positional focused, how would you feel about getting a buff for hitting all the positionals for a full cycle of opo-opo > raptor > coeurl? Once you've attained the buff, every weaponskill afterward will be treated similarly to DRG's Raiden Thrust, where they'll get a nice little potency boost. However, this buff will fall off as soon as you miss your first positional, which will (literally) keep us on our toes. I think with the tools they gave us in Riddle of Earth and 2 stacks of True North, this might be viable.

[SpeckledBurd]

In regards to introducing TFC before Deep Meditation, I think that might've been more of an archaic design choice. My immediate thought goes to NIN and Trick Attack, and how that was (for all intents and purposes) locked until you learned Suiton. I'm just speculating, but I imagine the reason for delaying the introduction of Deep Meditation and Suiton so late is due to the story tied with both jobs. Well, tbh, I don't remember the exact details of Deep Meditation and if there was even a big deal about it in MNK's story (it's been literal years since then); NIN's story is more fresh in my mind (capped it this expansion).

Meditation and The Forbidden Chakra aren't really tied to the story, the Heavensward skills only tied in loosely with the skills you were learning and didn't really correlate that well, and the Stormblood skills didn't really have a story tie in except for Brotherhood. The reason we have TFC so much earlier than Deep Meditation is that its original design isn't a gauge skill, it's a downtime damage loss mitigation skill. In Heavensward when the boss would jump for like 30 seconds, you'd hammer Meditation and come back with The Forbidden Chakra to make up for the fact that you probably lost your stacks(though granted you still do that, but in Heavensward that was its only use).

The disparity in levels between them is a result of Deep Meditation coming later in Stormblood where their big draw was that they were giving every job a gauge and performing an action rework to revise the jobs. In Monk's case, it really didn't get either of those (And honestly still hasn't lol). They gave Chakra a gauge, but they didn't actually change the system for it at all. They just tacked on an effect at higher levels that let it build in combat while leaving it as it was at low levels and also not really doing anything to make it a system, you'll notice we don't get Enlightenment until Level 74 which is about ten levels after pretty much every other DPS job gets an AOE use for their Gauge. If they'd given Monk more than 10 minutes of development time going from Stormblood to Shadowbringers and actually addressed player concerns, we'd get an AOE Chakra dump at like level 58 when we previously got purification (which was sort of that in Stormblood in that it was only good for AOE, but its 2 minute cooldown kept it from being a true dump) or they'd have changed Tornado Kick to a gauge dump so it would have an actual use.

[3ureka]

Damn. Yeah, now that you mention it, it's starting to come back to me. We definitely got the short end of the stick for the job story (among other things).

Reminds me. When 4.0 dropped, I changed my search info to: "The only expansion monks got in SB was a gaping bumhole"; I've since updated it, but maybe I need to go change it back haha

[kujoestars]

Personally, I like the abilities themselves so far, but I agree with the sentiment that most do not flow well together, or even match up with the Job Quest thematically (so disappointed we don't learn any shadow chakra abilities that we see in members of the shadow sect; would kill to at least be able to use Shadow Punch like H'raha).

I disagree on the notion of monk being a 3-button class because I'm pretty sure you're supposed to rotate different actions for combo based on situation and what buffs are up, but it certainly gets repetitive enough I frequently spam Meditation to use Forbidden Chakra even when it's not optimal just to shake things up. That and the fact I like running literal circles around enemies and having it as a mechanic is what keeps me content maining as a Monk.

I guess first of all, I'd like to have Chakra actually tied in more smoothly. Maybe instead of making us spam Meditation just for one (1) moderate damage move, maybe it could be tied in to our Greased Lightning stacks instead? That way, it's not a semi-useless gauge indicating we have better dps and skillspeed. I am presently thinking perhaps for every max stack we gain (and every subsequent combo after that maintains it), we open up a chakra until it maxea out and THEN we can smack Forbidden Chakra or Enlightenment. I think this would really help make the Chakra-based moves fit into rotations more naturally, in addition to making the Lightning Gauge more useful.

The other thing I would like to see is maybe actually including shadow-based moves. What was the point of that entire story if we can't use the Shadow Sect techniques alongside Light Sect ones?

[3ureka]

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I think it’s definitely a missed opportunity to not delve into the Shadow Sect or why we only have 5 stacks of chakra instead of 7/14 as mentioned in the story (there’s even a title ffs). At this point, I’d be willing to let that go for a more cohesive vision of monk. Get more skills off of the “super-niche” boat.

[kujoestars]

I think it’s definitely a missed opportunity to not delve into the Shadow Sect or why we only have 5 stacks of chakra instead of 7/14 as mentioned in the story (there’s even a title ffs). At this point, I’d be willing to let that go for a more cohesive vision of monk. Get more skills off of the “super-niche” boat.

Same here, hence why I have a wall of text for my first suggestion, lol. If we can just have chakra more tied in with our mechanics, I'd be happy enough. Again, perhaps making it so we gain a Chakra level each time we hit a Greased Lighting Combo (maybe even after we max out our stacks so we have a bigger reason to maintain them?) would probably help smooth a lot of things down.

[3ureka]

Same here, hence why I have a wall of text for my first suggestion, lol. If we can just have chakra more tied in with our mechanics, I'd be happy enough. Again, perhaps making it so we gain a Chakra level each time we hit a Greased Lighting Combo (maybe even after we max out our stacks so we have a bigger reason to maintain them?) would probably help smooth a lot of things down.

Haha. Well, walls of text are pretty common 'round munk threads. :P

But in all seriousness, I agree. I don't know about all the exact specifications, but what I am sure of is that the generation / expenditure of chakra (among other things) needs a second look.

It's been a few months since I came back to XIV and even shorter since I started looking through the forums again. Idk if there have been any organized proposals from the community for future suggestions on monk. I'm not sure if that'll do much, but at least it's a good faith effort as opposed to just saying "SE has given up on monk" (or something along those lines).

[Mikey_R]

Idk if there have been any organized proposals from the community for future suggestions on monk.

Considering different people have different visions for what they want monk to be, ranging from simple changes, to Ninja like changes to complete overhauls, I doubt there will be a version everyone agrees on. Even I have my own ideas which are different to everyone else's which, while it doesn't change the fundamental gameplay, tries to make use of everything in Monk's kit, and brings back things that the job lost (I haven't posted it anywhere).

However, it is the things that are wrong with Monk as it currently stands that most people will agree need changing. Anatman is terrible to use, double RNG on Chakra stacks, fist stances etc. However, it will be whether SE listen to what is wrong and focus on changing it to make it better, or whether they stick another band aid over the top to the point where it just feels bad to play and unrewarding. This is my biggest worry.