Changes that war need?

[Satarn]

#putthebuffonmaim That be easier maintain the buff or add 10 secs refresh by GCD(fell cleave or decimate) use when IR is up. So you don't need to time it the buff. There a lot of way the devs could make war less annoying to play but war need something fun to enjoy it.I want gap closer cost no war gauge more button to press outside of IR!

You literally might as well just remove Eye entirely then and boost all potencies accordingly, since you've just made Heavy->Maim->Path the only combo WAR would use, making the buff impossible to drop and further blurring the lines between it and DRK.

Seriously people, think 10 seconds before you post suggestions...

...Would it ever, just once, be reasonable to ask for more fluid means of control to manage complications like Storm's Eye, rather that just removing what little complexity the job still has? Just once?

It's honestly baffling how people will in one breath complain about how WAR is "unfun" now and ask for further dumbing down of the few mechanics that remain within the job.

[NyneSwordz]

You literally might as well just remove Eye entirely then and boost all potencies accordingly, since you've just made Heavy->Maim->Path the only combo WAR would use, making the buff impossible to drop and further blurring the lines between it and DRK.

Seriously people, think 10 seconds before you post suggestions...



It's honestly baffling how people will in one breath complain about how WAR is "unfun" now and ask for further dumbing down of the few mechanics that remain within the job.

Eye is unfun because of its interaction with the new aoe combo. THAT needs to be fixed.

It's just awkard right now having to aoe combo, then single target combo for eye, then go back to aoe maintain buff.

Thats all there is to it. Just make mythril tempest apply eye and everything is fine.

[Shurrikhan]

Eye is unfun because of its interaction with the new aoe combo. THAT needs to be fixed.

It's just awkard right now having to aoe combo, then single target combo for eye, then go back to aoe maintain buff.

Thats all there is to it. Just make mythril tempest apply eye and everything is fine.

Or just not even allow MT to sustain SE and increase its potency to compensate for SE no longer being the first 3 GCDs over gather for any given pull?

My own pipedream would be to bring back MP costs for everyone (in a way that doesn't lead to MP-starvation nor just hitting a CD every minute or two as "resource management") so that AoEs are more powerful (ideally through some manner of utility) but situational, while the single-target skills that appear to be AoE... are now AoE, albeit with tighter scaling than "pure AoEs". You can now weave the two, rather than having a solid line between where the one combo spam is optimal and the other combo spam is optimal.

But hey, that'd mean increased complexity and actually being able to using a greater portion of our toolkit in any given situation, so even if the game wasn't headed to 2-button-choices gameplay for everyone the community would likely tear me to pieces anyways since we're in the land of "combos(' limitations on skill choice through massive bloating) are brilliant and we'd rather live the Blue/Green DPS memes than have challenging fights that make significant use of anything but our damage dealt". /shrug

[Izsha]

Eye is unfun because of its interaction with the new aoe combo. THAT needs to be fixed.

It's just awkard right now having to aoe combo, then single target combo for eye, then go back to aoe maintain buff.

Thats all there is to it. Just make mythril tempest apply eye and everything is fine.

That didn't seem to be a problem anyone cared about for the last 5 years. It's always been ST combo>aoe>repeat which is now ST combo>aoe>aoe>aoe>aoe(etc). And now it needs to just he Aoe(forever)?

I mean war is already absurdly simple to play. Now we want to hit 2 buttons for entire dungeons? Can we not remove what few buttons we have left on this stupidly dumbed down job?

Edit:
I should note, with all this talk about eye being 'annoying', the solution should not be removing it, dumbing it down, etc. If you dont like how it works, think about how it could be made more INTERESTING of a mechanic. Just removing it, extending duration, making it apply on maim, etc are all just simplifying what is (arguably) the simplist job in the game. Just pairing down things you dint like leaves a hollowed out job. If you dont like how eye works, then think about how to make it fun and interesting instead of just minimizing or outright removing it. War is to 1 dimensional to take any more culling because you 'dont like hitting this button'.

[Satarn]

That didn't seem to be a problem anyone cared about for the last 5 years. It's always been ST combo>aoe>repeat which is now ST combo>aoe>aoe>aoe>aoe(etc). And now it needs to just he Aoe(forever)?

Yeah, I don't understand how is that a problem either - you just have to use Eye combo once per pull(once tops, because you can manage to just not drop the buff between pulls in some cases). Neither what's so bad about having to think if you'll need to reapply Eye before going into IR - oh no, you need to think about a single gorramn thing, what a tragedy. Those "annoyances" are often needed, because if there's no limitations then there's no mechanics and the job becomes boring(or more boring in this case, because WAR has already lost enough).
Look at DRK - all your MP rates are by design timed so everything will naturally line up to be optimal without a thought required, Darkside is impossible to drop, you don't have any extra combo to worry about - and as result the job is just a mess of pretend-mechanics.

Making WAR actually fun to play - aka more engaging - would likely require devs to admit that reworking IR was a stupid mistake and roll that shit back. Of course things would need adjustments in order to re implement the old system without breaking the SHB skills. How it could work imo:

- remove Berserk mastery completely
- revert Berserk effect to "Increases physical damage dealt by 30%. Duration: 20s, Cooldown: 60s."
- revert Inner Release effect to "Reduces the costs of Beast Gauge actions by half. Duration: 20s, Cooldown:120s."
- change the effect of Nascent Chaos trait to "Grants a stack of Nascent Chaos upon landing Fell Cleave, or Decimate on most targets. Once Nascent Chaos reaches 5 stacks, it becomes Raging Chaos, upgrading Decimate to Chaotic Cyclone. Upon reaching level 80, Raging Chaos will also upgrade Fell Cleave to Inner Chaos."
- bring back Butcher's Block as a third combo finisher with higher potency than Path/Eye, but only 10 gauge per hit, to allow for finer gauge management
- remove auto directcrits from Inner Chaos and Chaotic Cyclone
- change Nascent Flash effect to "Grants Nascent Flash to self, absorbing 200% of damage dealt as HP. Also grants target party member Nascent Glint, restoring HP equaling 50% of that recovered by Nascent Flash while also reducing damage taken by 10%. Duration: 6s. Shares a recast timer with Raw Intuition." Basically make it usable on self like Dragon Sight for qol and buff the healing as you could no longer rely on auto directcrit spam for massive healing.

Of course some potencies would likely need buffs due to removal of directcrits and perhaps 200/100% healing on NF is a bit of an overkill, so that could use tuning as well(just as long as it's still as good at healing as it is right now).

[Jokersoal]

Yeah, I don't understand how is that a problem either - you just have to use Eye combo once per pull(once tops, because you can manage to just not drop the buff between pulls in some cases). Neither what's so bad about having to think if you'll need to reapply Eye before going into IR - oh no, you need to think about a single gorramn thing, what a tragedy. Those "annoyances" are often needed, because if there's no limitations then there's no mechanics and the job becomes boring(or more boring in this case, because WAR has already lost enough).
Look at DRK - all your MP rates are by design timed so everything will naturally line up to be optimal without a thought required, Darkside is impossible to drop, you don't have any extra combo to worry about - and as result the job is just a mess of pretend-mechanics.

Making WAR actually fun to play - aka more engaging - would likely require devs to admit that reworking IR was a stupid mistake and roll that shit back. Of course things would need adjustments in order to re implement the old system without breaking the SHB skills. How it could work imo:

- remove Berserk mastery completely
- revert Berserk effect to "Increases physical damage dealt by 30%. Duration: 20s, Cooldown: 60s."
- revert Inner Release effect to "Reduces the costs of Beast Gauge actions by half. Duration: 20s, Cooldown:120s."
- change the effect of Nascent Chaos trait to "Grants a stack of Nascent Chaos upon landing Fell Cleave, or Decimate on most targets. Once Nascent Chaos reaches 5 stacks, it becomes Raging Chaos, upgrading Decimate to Chaotic Cyclone. Upon reaching level 80, Raging Chaos will also upgrade Fell Cleave to Inner Chaos."
- bring back Butcher's Block as a third combo finisher with higher potency than Path/Eye, but only 10 gauge per hit, to allow for finer gauge management
- remove auto directcrits from Inner Chaos and Chaotic Cyclone
- change Nascent Flash effect to "Grants Nascent Flash to self, absorbing 200% of damage dealt as HP. Also grants target party member Nascent Glint, restoring HP equaling 50% of that recovered by Nascent Flash while also reducing damage taken by 10%. Duration: 6s. Shares a recast timer with Raw Intuition." Basically make it usable on self like Dragon Sight for qol and buff the healing as you could no longer rely on auto directcrit spam for massive healing.

Of course some potencies would likely need buffs due to removal of directcrits and perhaps 200/100% healing on NF is a bit of an overkill, so that could use tuning as well(just as long as it's still as good at healing as it is right now).

I didn't imagine the topic about mythril tempest could go this far since it would only have an "impact" on casual content. It is just a sort of " If I can have this why not to directly spam aoes like the other tanks but It's not really important so...".
Regarding the revert you proposed, I like it

[NyneSwordz]

It wasnt a problem because we never had an aoe combo that we used in place of single target.

Thats why it was never a problem.

Not sure why thats hard to grasp.

For the last 5 years all we ever did was overpower a couple times then single target combo.

Now we have an aoe combo that needs to be done over and over until pack dies.

Thats the difference.

Think of it this way, what if eye buff was on mythril tempest instead of storms eye.

Would you think it was "fine" if you had to, in a raid, hit the boss with mythril before you can do your single target combo?

Not sure why this is hard to grasp. If its fine to you, that is okay, but at least acknowledge that theres a valid argument for why some people feel it is clunky.

[NyneSwordz]

Also, we NEVER overpowered spam until a pack dies in a dungeon ever. At least i didn't.

Was it ever really efficient to spam overpower over and over and lose eye and not generate any rage?

@izsha not sure why you think our aoe game is the same pre and post shb.

[NyneSwordz]

Nevermind re read ur post.

Yes, it needs to be aoe forever.

Whats the alternative?

Aoe>st>aoe>aoe>aoe?

Not sure having one st lodged in their oer pull makes the class any more engaging or fun.

[Satarn]

For the last 5 years all we ever did was overpower a couple times then single target combo.

Now we have an aoe combo that needs to be done over and over until pack dies.

Yea, that's the issue mate - it was just you.
WARs didn't single target on trash packs outside of putting up/refreshing Eye and Overpower spam otherwise + Steel Cyclone/Decimate when you had IR/Infuriate up and whenever you got some gauge from Eye combos. In fact it wasn't even worth to reapply Eye if the pack would die fast enough.

So as Izsha says - the combo difference is just replacing every other Overpower with Mithril Tempest and that you no longer have to go back to reapply Eye, so if anything it's less clunky/annoying than it used to be.