Changes that war need?

[Nedkel]

Its a bit of a stretch to say that the big bad raider strawman caused this, last I remember last expansion there was a large amount of people who liked how war and pld played, and lots of feedback that drk felt "too spammy", so naturally making drk more like the other 2 was the direction they took, which sucks for people who liked how drk played, but it certainly wasn't just raiders who pushed for drk to be changed.

Its not a strawman, i have seen numerous demands on this forum and reddit for buffs for each job to make it perform the same as other job that is slightly higher.
Right now it happens in DPS subforum, where people compare something to another and ask to perform the same.

Feedback is responsible for a state of DRK today, which isnt all that bad but pretty boring to say the least.

[ReiMakoto]

Its not a strawman, i have seen numerous demands on this forum and reddit for buffs for each job to make it perform the same as other job that is slightly higher.
Right now it happens in DPS subforum, where people compare something to another and ask to perform the same.

Feedback is responsible for a state of DRK today, which isnt all that bad but pretty boring to say the least.

Updates to job performance =/= rework, those people are asking for numeric buffs not changed gameplay

[Vulcann]

Its a bit of a stretch to say that the big bad raider strawman caused this, last I remember last expansion there was a large amount of people who liked how war and pld played, and lots of feedback that drk felt "too spammy", so naturally making drk more like the other 2 was the direction they took, which sucks for people who liked how drk played, but it certainly wasn't just raiders who pushed for drk to be changed.

its hardly a stretch ... every game is dictated by the raiders as they are some of the biggest whiners in the game. classes are completely changed and dumbed down because of their precious DPS. all support from classes is removed in favor of just dps increases.

[WhyAmIHere]

its hardly a stretch ... every game is dictated by the raiders as they are some of the biggest whiners in the game. classes are completely changed and dumbed down because of their precious DPS. all support from classes is removed in favor of just dps increases.

Roleplayers and casual players complaining that "I cant feel immersed enough" have more weight than raiders.
Raiders finally got ultimate after asking for more demanding content, and for the most part raiders are pleased. Now it's all down to job balance.
There is no end for the additions/changes that cater to people who passively play, role play, craft/gather, or afk in spots only to idle and take up server space.
Your bias is negatively impacting your arguments bud.

[WhyAmIHere]

this is what happens when raiders start dictating the direction of the games balance. All class diversity is thrown out the window for the almighty raid spot. the developers listen and just start making every class basically the same with just different effects.

raiders dont dictate the direction of the games balance; the game's designers do.

[ArianeEwah]

ReiMakoto is right, raiders don't dictate the gameplay design, rather they demand buffs (or nerfs) in actual dps numbers to keep jobs balanced.

Best current example is SMN. Go to the DPS forum and see how a theorycrafter and raider suggests numeric nerfs to their job because it is too strong. Afaik there is no word about job design failing the balance between caster roles, but about their potency numbers.

If we go about raiders: the world first Ultima party (and I think UCoB, too) had a DRK, and they said 'DRK is fun'. Mind, this was during Stormblood when most people just sh*t all over DRK job design (myself included). It had quite the numbers of issues, but it was almost balanced in end game content, when it was played right. Raiders didn't demand a redesign, the (whole) community of DRK players did.

Even DRK Delirium change into IR 1.x was a change from game designer's team. Nobody, not even raiders demanded or suggested this one.

Imo it's silly, and SE design team should either change IR and/or Delirium to something more unique and fun. You can care about numbers later, but when your gameplay becames dull and boring/unfun, it is doomed to fail.
e.g. Bloodweapon: How do you fit in 5 spells, or even 5 weaponskills when even a little lag (from you or server) causes you to fall out of its window? This is a design fail (and should hopefully change with the next design/balance patch)

[NyneSwordz]

I havent played ffxiv in what seems like months because i feel warrior is boring a d clunky. I really dislike the target requirement in nascent flash, overpower in the new aoe rotation (pvp is much better), and rage cost on onslaught.

But mostly my gripe is with nascent flashs target requirement both for pvp and pve. If they could just make the self heal function in pve and pvp without a target war would be twice as fun imo.

[BarretOblivion]

So I brought in WAR into TEA and I gotta say, its really clunky. Mainly because of how WAR is designed around almost all of its damage is dependant on IR. TEA the hand and LL slowly extend thier gap of HP as the fight drags on and the problem is your IR is on cooldown until 2nd protean wave. During all that time we had to start making DPS put extra dots on the hand just to help keep their hp pools in check because without a good solid consistant damage the one that the WAR has starts falling behind until IR.

That's the problem to me with WAR, too reliant on IR.

[Ultimatecalibur]

So I brought in WAR into TEA and I gotta say, its really clunky. Mainly because of how WAR is designed around almost all of its damage is dependant on IR. TEA the hand and LL slowly extend thier gap of HP as the fight drags on and the problem is your IR is on cooldown until 2nd protean wave. During all that time we had to start making DPS put extra dots on the hand just to help keep their hp pools in check because without a good solid consistant damage the one that the WAR has starts falling behind until IR.

That's the problem to me with WAR, too reliant on IR.

So would increasing the potency of the Storm's Eye and Storm's Path combos while decreasing Fell Cleave's potency (and leaving Inner Chaos alone) do that?

[BarretOblivion]

So would increasing the potency of the Storm's Eye and Storm's Path combos while decreasing Fell Cleave's potency (and leaving Inner Chaos alone) do that?

No, you still fell cleave a bit even outside of IR so that wouldn't help at all. All the other tanks besides WAR have optimal options to hit 2 targets with some kind of AoE and gain damage. WAR can't do that, none of its skills is a gain on damage on two targets over single target until 3 targets are in place.
WAR has a design issue that steems from the IR change, instead they should revert the change from SB by removing the guarenteed DH/CRT aspect of IR but bring back beserk for a 20% DPS gain. Maybe keep the chaos skills as DH/CRIT but they need something better to help balance their down time without IR. As some WARs point out, there is a fairly massive damage difference between killing a boss before an IR and afterwards.

Because WAR is so darn spikey it puts more pressure on DPS to go out of their way to help more in Ultimate due to the requirement of not having IR when the hand/LL split. You only get to IR again during Protean Wave 2, which is almost at the end of the entire LL phase.

This is the one of the design issues with making a burst tank instead of a consistant damage tank. Sure bursts are important, but when you are all in on your burst there are legitamate issues with that. DRK is also a burst tank, but its burst isn't as high as WAR so it has room to have a better outside of burst damage so you aren't completely 100% reliant on that burst. PLD/GNB have burst phases but they aren't massive but are enough to keep their numbers basically static through out the fight. Again, this issue glares its ugly head in TEA, but one could argue it also comes up when mechanics line up with you are supposed to be bursting that force you to move. Delaying a burst and missing party buffs can lead to missing an entire burst phase in the long run which just extends the DPS difference between tanks.

A rework to reduce burst but improve on its outside burst is needed for WAR, at least in my opinion.