Summoner is doing too much in 5.10

[Nemekh]

When those of us over at Akhmorning/The Balance projected the expected DPS gains for the 5.10 Summoner's changes, we expected healthy increases from the DoT potency, TriD damage and Ruin IV increases before accounting for pet scaling changes.

We then tried to account for pet scaling with the new Egi Assaults, assuming the scaling before 5.10. Numbers appeared elevated especially in relation to other DPS jobs.

Now that the patch is live, melee pets (Topaz, Ifrit, Titan) scale the same as caster pets, that is, Garuda Egi and both Demi-Summons.

In terms of damage, this makes Rock Buster and Burning Strike, Titan and Ifrit's "auto" GCD, do around ~1.7x of the damage they were doing before 5.10.
Combining that with their damage Egi Assaults doing 250p from 100p, melee egi EAs are ~4.27x stronger than they were before.
We must also account for the Enkindle damage increases, but they were already operating under Caster pet scaling, so in terms of before they were only benefitting from +100p/2mins.

This pushes overall Summoner damage way beyond in relation to every job, perhaps even going beyond Black Mage in overall DPS in a party with raid synergy and strong alignment, while having the increased mobility, increased survival with 30% Earthen Armor and being a raise caster.

I said on my podcast and in my discord channels that if Summoner ended up being too strong with the final changes, I would bring it up. This is my doing so. The pet changes are exactly what I had expected they would be.

Summoner being this high is going to break things, with the DPS that didn't increase as much, in particular, Red Mage given their shared role as a fellow raise caster, being the ones who will suffer the most from this change in the long term.

Square Enix, I implore you to please look into tuning numbers for the sake of overall game balance.

[TsundereImouto]

seconded. i love smn and have always played it regardless of its strength or weakness, but give our RDM brothers and sisters some more love.

BLM also needs utility to balance out its kit. Consider an AOE manaward (10%?) instead of raise to allow them to compete in that regard.

[Taranok]

seconded. i love smn and have always played it regardless of its strength or weakness, but give our RDM brothers and sisters some more love.

BLM also needs utility to balance out its kit. Consider an AOE manaward (10%?) instead of raise to allow them to compete in that regard.

I'd prefer that either raise was made a caster-expected utility, or that casters flat out no longer had raises at all. Having 1 caster that doesn't have it while the majority do is a bizarre choice. That said, I think raises on non-healers should be vastly more limited than they are not, but I also don't like the wishy-washy nature of Black Mages not having raise, regardless of lore justifications, since it's something that has come to define the caster role now.

That said, the new summoner has a weird texture to it. It's nice that pet scaling was made consistent, but....seriously, it feels weird.

[Taranok]

Also, amusing side note: Summoner now has the ability to get infinite ruin 4 procs. I won't be detailing how to actually do this, since it's 100% an exploit, but yeah....that's a bug report already sent in.

[Siete]

Actually I felt it to be weaker but eh

[OinOdin]

my judgement for now ... it's even messy and more "un-fluid" (this can change)

[Excaliburnina]

Return of the status quo isn't all that surprising, but it's more harm to SMN than anything else; it almost seems as if Square's idea of a band-aid for the job is to boost it to absurd levels to satisfy people until they can figure out what to do with it - and the figuring out doesn't seem to happen. Caster raise quantification and balancing aside, I'm just numb to their lack of ability to find a real solution for this job in particular. It does affect other jobs in the game, and I don't think the caster role being so small on top of 2/3 having caster raise helps, but I think even if SMN is doing high damage and it's accepted by people due to that, something is going very wrong with whoever pays attention to its balancing and design on Square's side.

[Siete]

They should just give the pet class a good rest and make it an egi summoner caster + Trancer
Right now the class is a mess because it's a DoT manage, pet CD manage, trance management class, it does many things because it seems they never took a firm decision on what it should be.
Heck just make the class trance rotate different Egis, that'd be beautiful.

[Taranok]

They should just give the pet class a good rest and make it an egi summoner caster + Trancer
Right now the class is a mess because it's a DoT manage, pet CD manage, trance management class, it does many things because it seems they never took a firm decision on what it should be.
Heck just make the class trance rotate different Egis, that'd be beautiful.

You forgot Aetherflow Management class. And that pet CDs directly conflict with trance cooldowns, and that one of the demis isn't even tied to the trance.

The class is bursting at the seams and is essentially as broken now as Machinist was during Stormblood. Seriously, I don't even know how the devs have managed to fix one problem but cause a completely new one in its stead.

It needs to be gutted and rebuilt from the ground up. 6.0, here we come.

[AbelArchaniEA]

When those of us over at Akhmorning/The Balance projected the expected DPS gains for the 5.10 Summoner's changes, we expected healthy increases from the DoT potency and Ruin IV increases before accounting for pet scaling changes.

We then tried to account for pet scaling with the new Egi Assaults, assuming the scaling before 5.10. Numbers appeared elevated especially in relation to other DPS jobs.

Now that the patch is live, melee pets (Topaz, Ifrit, Titan) scale the same as caster pets, that is, Garuda Egi and both Demi-Summons.

This pushes overall Summoner damage way beyond in relation to every job, perhaps even eclipsing Black Mage in RDPS, while having the increased mobility, increased survival with 30% Earthen Armor and being a raise caster.

I said on my podcast and in my discord channels that if Summoner ended up being too strong with the final changes, I would bring it up. This is my doing so. The pet changes are exactly what I had expected they would be.

Summoner being this high is going to break things, with the DPS that didn't increase as much, in particular Red Mage given their shared role as a fellow raise caster, being the ones who will suffer the most from this change in the long term.

Square Enix, I implore you to please look into tuning numbers for the sake of overall game balance.

Little dramatic and pre mature on day 1