Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[NyneSwordz]

Just reposting my complaint from PvP forums to here... since it applies to PvP as well. And in the past, PvP changes have preceded similar changes to PvE actions.

Nascent Flash party target requirement is so bad. Imagine a paladin not being able to use clemency to heal himself because there aren't any party members close by. Or having to summon a chocobo so he can heal himself with clemency.

I don't know why they did this. If clemency, aurora, tbn, and intervention can be used without a party target required, WHY PLACE THAT REQUIREMENT ON NASCENT FLASH?

I. Just. Don't. Get. It.

I hate it so much. I don't even want wars to be "better" than other tanks, I just want to be able to use my actions when I want to use them without restrictions other tanks are not subject to.

It's been four months and this annoying, and unnecessary restriction is still here. Why?!

It's so bad for Frontlines PvP. All tanks have a 30 sec party targetABLE defensive action. TBN (15 secs but it costs resources), aurora, intervention, and Nascent Flash. These actions are super powerful and potent defensive actions which are at the core of the tank kit. By that, I mean it accounts for 1/3 of how a tank is a tank in PvP (healing from attacks, 30 sec party targetable def action, and 60 sec partywide defensive action). And Nascent Flash is the only one with a party target requirement rendering the action unuseable on self when a party member is not close by (even alliance members CANNOT be targeted with Nascent Flash - has to be PARTY).

PvP Potions DO NOT make up for this.

In PvE, Equilibrium DOES NOT make up for this. Especially since Wars lost healing from inner beast. I mean, Wars lost Bloodbath, then Inner Beast, and now we get some self-sustain back which is great, but why attach this annoying restriction to it?

It's been 4 months, and yes, I appreciate all the content updates. But now that several patches have EXTENSIVELY addressed healers and dps (not that I think all the issues have been fixed for those roles), can we please get a patch which extensively looks at tank issues. This recent patch even overhauled crafters (the new ui looks beautiful). So can we get a patch focusing on tanks. Pls?

Not just for Warriors, but for all tanks of course.

But chief among the things I want addressed for Warriors is this ridiculous, unnecessary, clunky restriction on Nascent Flash. Again, If clemency, aurora, tbn, and intervention can be used without a party target required, WHY PLACE THAT REQUIREMENT ON NASCENT FLASH?


Also, Mythril Tempest comboing into Steel Cyclone in PvP is one of my favorite changes for Wars in PvP. Please bring this to PvE.

Taking a break until I see some meaningful tank adjustments. Also, I appreciate that all tanks are "balanced" right now, that is good. But please, fun is important too. And QoL of improvements like removing this unnecessary restriction on Nascent Flash and making War AOE 360 insteal of Conal would be make the game more fun for me and I'm sure for quite a few others (you made rockbreaker for Monk 360 instead of conal in this patch!) Please make a meaningful pass on tanks in the next patch.

Thank you.

[BarretOblivion]

Intervention requires a target bud.

[Shurrikhan]

But chief among the things I want addressed for Warriors is this ridiculous, unnecessary, clunky restriction on Nascent Flash. Again, [B] If clemency, aurora, tbn, and intervention can be used without a party target required, WHY PLACE THAT REQUIREMENT ON NASCENT FLASH?

Because Clemency is an emergency tool rather than a CD, Aurora is just a job-unique bonus CD (perhaps to make up for the weakness of HoS and Camo), TBN functions identically on self and target unlike HoS* and Clemency, and Intervention DOES require a party target.

But, agreed, NF shouldn't require a target, and ideally Shelltron and Intervention could be rolled into one key if they just inflicted separate charges.

[TheForce]

Intervention requires a target bud.

As does divine veil :/

[Carstien]

I think you and everybody complaining about Nascent is just thinking of the skill in a way that's baffling to me. I'll start by saying yeah, it's annoying when you can't use it because your group is dead.

That's not what the skill is for though. You're thinking of it like a cooldown, it isn't, it's half a cooldown. It's the half of tbn that you can target other players with, the half of heart of stone. It's not clemency, it's intervention. You're not meant to have another free cooldown choice. That's how we use it now, for the part that heals us but I think it would serve us right if the devs just took the self healing off it and left it as a heal and mitigation for a partner.

You have a skill you can use solo, it's raw intuition. The half of this pair that you're meant to use like that.

[VenKitsune]

I think you and everybody complaining about Nascent is just thinking of the skill in a way that's baffling to me. I'll start by saying yeah, it's annoying when you can't use it because your group is dead.

That's not what the skill is for though. You're thinking of it like a cooldown, it isn't, it's half a cooldown. It's the half of tbn that you can target other players with, the half of heart of stone. It's not clemency, it's intervention. You're not meant to have another free cooldown choice. That's how we use it now, for the part that heals us but I think it would serve us right if the devs just took the self healing off it and left it as a heal and mitigation for a partner.

You have a skill you can use solo, it's raw intuition. The half of this pair that you're meant to use like that.

Agreed. NF is a co-tank support skill, not a cooldown.

snip

NF is terrible as personal mitigation compared to RI.
WAR already has the best personal mitigation tools out of all the tanks in the game right now. Rampart, same as always. Vengeance? Same as all the other tanks...But gives a benefit if you're MT, it hits the enemy back. RI? a 25 second cooldown rampart...which is honestly huge. Thrill and equilibrium is also instant cast, no cost healing that also functions as a mini cooldown by providing you with Defiances old bonuses ON TOP of the 20% mitigation tank mastery trait provides.

Warrior is by far the strongest DEFENSIVE tank in the game right now, staying true to its ORIGINAL 2.x identity which was so rudely ripped from it with fell cleave came out, and the tank meta changed in 3.x to be "drop tank stance you scrub"

TBN doesn't need a target because they dont have a stronger, personal only version like WAR's RI. RI is meant for yourself, NF for co-tank, there is a reason they share a cooldown. Its not like you can put TBN on yourself AND your co-tank within the same cooldown.
Intervention requires a target, and costs the same ammount as sheltron.
Aurora doesn't count - GNB's self healing without it would be so pathetic healers would hate playing with them. Aurora simply gives the option of giving some healing, that would otherwise be reserved for them, to another person. Oh, and Aurora is the SAME potency as Equilibrium...And you can't give Equilibrium to anyone but yourself...So why are you complaining when you're ignoring this? You're literally arguing against yourself here.

Bottom line? If you're the only one who needs mitigation, use RI. NF is TERRIBLE for your own benefit, as it should be, its meant as a co-tank support skill and to give you viable utility to be considered to be a part of the meta.

If they wanted it to be "balanced" they could simply remove NF from the game and allow you to cast RI on other people. Would that make you happy? Removing a unique and kinda weak skill in favour of yet less "button bloat"? The cooldown shared between NF and RI is there so you have to make a choice, and creates the skill ceiling we have today. Removing the Target requirement would be pointless, NF is not designed as a personal cooldown and shouldn't be treated as such, and not only just because RI is stronger by almost twice as much.

PLD was underused in 3.x because it had a bad rep considering it couldnt block magic damage, and so was "hated" - in 4.x DRK was underused because again, bad rep and so was hated because of its lack of group utility compared to the other tanks. In ShB? ALL tanks are used and all fulfill different sub-roles. Be grateful you're still relevant.

Oh, also, any talk about PvP is entirely irrelevant as its separately balanced with seperate potencies and weights, nevermind used in completely different scenarios and best discussed on the pvp forums, yes?

[JoHighnes]

Imagine if they removed clemency and instead added an effect to intervention where you get healed when you use intervention on an ally. Then told you it isn't a cooldown for you, it is only there for party support. That is where warrior is at.

[Saefinn]

To play devil's advocate, would you want NF to be warrior clemency though?

One complaint we see about jobs at the moment is where there's homogenisation. In this regard Warrior having its own thing would be better? (and by all means, with room for improvement) Rather than expecting it to work like a similar skill PLD has.

[VenKitsune]

Imagine if they removed clemency and instead added an effect to intervention where you get healed when you use intervention on an ally. Then told you it isn't a cooldown for you, it is only there for party support. That is where warrior is at.

Why does everyone forget about Equilibrium?

Aurora? 1200 total potency over its duration.
Clemency? 1200 total potency, more with Requiescat.
Equilibrium? 1200 total potency. WAR also has Thrill, which can also increase the effectiveness of Equilibrium and also a heal in its own that scales with gear exponentially owing to it being a percentage.
(DRK has nothing...cough)

The Difference? Aurora and Clemency can be cast on other people (Clemency makes you loose damage)...Equilibrium can't....And yet people are annoyed NF, a weaker skill than RI that also shares its cooldown, can only be used as party support but their 1200 potency heal CANT but use the other tanks 1200 potency heals as an arguing point against warrior....I dont get it. Soooo...Where is your argument? WAR already has more healing skills than the other tanks, on paper and in a vacuum, as everyone seems to want to compare them in.

[xJimmehx]

Should still be tied to RI for tank busters. The target requirement should be optional. It should apply the effect like usual if you have a target, but if not then it should work on you alone very similarly to bloodbath.

Using decimate on top of 2 chaotic cyclones is amazing in packs. RI isnt as good if you have the cooldowns to do this. Just plan it out a little. On single target, RI is superior. If you are about to get smashed by a buster, RI could be needed to survive. I find both very useful depending on the situation and dont really mind at all if they are tied together. Its the target swapping that bothers me.