Bring back 24 man PvP please

[Nedkel]

Have they ever even acknowledged the issues since the removal?

Not even a single post anywhere, literally nowhere.

[Awha]

Did they simply remove 8v8v8 because they dislike premade groups? I cam see no other reason and even that one is a stretch.

[Nalien]

Request: If the forum mod who ends up seeing this thread could not move this one to the PvP section, that'd be great. There are enough "Bring back 24m" threads in that section already, and I think everyone would rather have more visibility of the issue from leaving this in the General section.

Did they simply remove 8v8v8 because they dislike premade groups? I cam see no other reason and even that one is a stretch.

From what I've gathered, JP players disliked 24m, so SE removed it for them. Apparently no pops is better than 24m? Not that JP has an issue with pops anyway, they're far more active in PvP than NA/EU so 24m was a rarity for them, while somewhat of a necessity for us. Really doesn't justify the removal of it though... If 24m pops, then 72m wasn't going to. Arguably 24m popping could prevent 72m from forming up, but that is A: An issue with the matchmaking algorithm, and B: Still not entirely true. The entire reason 24m (and 48m, may it rest in peace) were even a thing to begin with was to help get 72m active. People queue up and see a long queue time with no pops? They drop out of queue and don't bother. You get a 24m pop? You stay in queue and keep playing. More people join, eventually 72 or more people are in queue.

The entire point of 24m existing was that it was better than nothing (and I'd actually mirror others opinions that it was better than 72m) and it allowed queues to snowball up towards 72m. It was a perfectly good positive feedback system and it was working perfectly fine, now we're left with a negative feedback loop; Long queues drive people away, queue becomes longer, longer queues drives more away, etc. It really is shocking that they apparently don't even remember why they included 24m to begin with...

Premades is another issue, but I'd say they "fixed" that by limiting players to parties of four. Not that I'd really call that a fix... Premades should be encouraged, not discouraged... This is an MMO, and something like Frontlines is based on working together as a team... Anyone who goes into Frontlines YOLO style and expects to win really is rather delusional... It's large scale team based PvP... Why are SE catering to people who apparently don't get that? Those aren't the players that are going to help PvP in this game grow, they're their for Mog Tomes and Cyborg glamours, and once they've got that they quit PvP until the next new item is added to force them into it again... I'm not even saying people need to form their own premades to fight other premades (although it would be great if people socialized in an MMO, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask mid-match if anyone wants to group up as a premade, mostly it's senseless bickering, it's almost like such people don't actually care about trying to win but rather just want to complain ad nauseum), but at least try and coordinate with people and not run off alone like a headless chicken to slaughter, or worse, sit in the corner doing nothing for 10 minutes for 5 free Mog Tomes... Again... Why cater to these kinds of players? Cater to the people who form premades, make Cross-World Linkshells, build a PvP community... Why discourage people from working together in PvP like this? It's utter lunacy...

Not that premades didn't have some issues. Mostly matchmaking though IMO, because there just isn't any in this game. You'd think if 3 premades are queued at the same time, there'd be some kind of matchmaking system to split them up... Nope, XIV doesn't have time for that kind of common sense. It's just as likely to slap them all in the same team as it is to split them up... Of course, at this point anyone who wants to play on the same team just turns Freelancer off (which damages queue times btw) and all join the same Grand Company. Bam. Everyone is on the same team in Maelstrom or whatever. We used to be limited to 8 player teams, now SE tried to limit us to 4 player teams. Now people game the Grand Company aspect of Frontlines to make 24 player premades. Nice fix.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Unorthodox opinion - 8v8v8 was superior because your contribution mattered while 72man is a zergfest where engaging with less than 80% of your group was borderline feeding.

Both fine, but removing 24man was just a plain mistake imo. Just makes off-peak hours unnecessarily painful to queue for.

[Odessium]

I play on Mana DC during the weekend until reset on EU. I play with 250 ms ping and it's laggy as hell but at least I get to PvP. Legit no reason to queue on Light DC until reset because I know it's dead. Thanks SE.

[Noitems]

The only reason they haven't responded is because there hasn't been new content focused on Frontlines. Only changes leading into that new content.

They're going to wait for when Onsal launches and judge it off a two week period. Then they'll make an annoucement and it should be fine. Just make sure you're vocal and upvote a specific thread so it gets posted to the front.

They had the exact same problem back in 4.3 when Lighthouse came out and they switched the loot system to greed only. Everyone got extremely pissed and posted on the forum (I believe in one big thread) and after two weeks they changed it back due to the backlash.

I'm sorry to say the only time to make your point across is when they've just launched the content as that's when they're maintaining the newest amusement park ride. Granted we need to rely on JP's forum posts too but I think at least fixing 24 man frontline matches will be more reasonable to them then bringing back the 8 man premades.

[LalaRu]

It will be a bold request, but why just don't launch an instance immediately with first queue request, and fill parties while in progress? It will be a guaranteed entry at duty register for everyone. And yes, it may happen 8v4v2 but better than 72min queue, and a decent marks farming even for the underdog, isn't it?

If too bold, make the queue pop after a maxed wait of... 10min? 15?

[Nalien]

It will be a bold request, but why just don't launch an instance immediately with first queue request, and fill parties while in progress? It will be a guaranteed entry at duty register for everyone. And yes, it may happen 8v4v2 but better than 72min queue, and a decent marks farming even for the underdog, isn't it?

If too bold, make the queue pop after a maxed wait of... 10min? 15?

I've seen plenty of people request something similar to Overwatches Skirmish mode for PvP queues. Essentially, you queue up and are put in a "dummy" instance with everyone else in queue if it's not popping near-instantly. You can run around, adjust your HUD, practice bursts, etc. and then when enough people are in queue you're all put into a proper match.

Would be a nice way to actually gauge how many people are in queue, since you'd be able to mess around with them all in Skirmish while you wait. Of course, they could also just give us an indication of how many people are in queue off the duty finder like almost all PvE queues do (I queue for a Leveling Roulette right now, for example, it shows 1/1 tank, 0/1 healer, 2/2 dps). Why we've never had at least that for PvP is beyond me... Queuing for PvP always feels like you're the only one there because of the lack of that, you see a long wait time and have no way of knowing how close to filling the instance is, so people just leave... If we could see that it was say 67/72, well maybe then people would stick around since it's "close to filling".

[Moonlite]

Still bad. What are the chances they discuss this in the special broadcast?



To the people a little confused. It popped before the moogle event in 24s the 72s were a side effect of moogle tomes. Garo event was stale till the end and people weren't rushing for items till the end. The end of the Garo could contribute to the 72s popping not the 24s back in 4.X. They can't be that out of touch about why 72s popped, this is the vaunted FF14 dev team. They communicate and take feed back to build a better game.


Questions I would like to be discussed if they actually talk about this.



Why have you been silent on this issue for weeks?



Some people claim that this was to appease JP since they prefer 72s, is that true?



Are you tracking the amount of pops? How much has it decreased from Pre Garo ending announcement?

Do you hope that the new map will carry pops for three to six months?



What are your plans to help with que problems?



Is it possible to have 24 mans as its own separate instance from 72s?

[Deceptus]

I gave up after 90 minutes. This is why people think that PvP in this game is a joke.