Need some Tenacity math..

[Lodi]

Tenacity isn't bad to have, it's just not as good regarding DPS.

(Also just to correct something, WHM does have one Haste skill)

[DRKoftheAzure]

Tenacity isn't bad to have, it's just not as good regarding DPS.

(Also just to correct something, WHM does have one Haste skill)

Oh sh*t, you're right! I forgot about Presence of Mind!

So WHM, BLM, NIN, MNK, SAM, and maybe SMN and MCH(because of Dreadwyrm/Firebird Trance and Heat Blast due to how they work) have access to haste but none of the tanks and Physical Ranged do not have access to haste, so at least 1 tank need to have access to some form of haste...



EDIT: WAR Fell Cleaves and Decimate also qualify as haste effects because of how it affects Infuritate recast timer, but that's on a technicality like Dreadwyrm/Firebird Trance removing cast times and Heat Blast affecting Guass Round/Ricochet recast timer...

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

-snip-

Alright, before any confusion ends up happening, let's first declare what even qualifies as "Haste".

Haste is the general term for buffs that reduce recast time of GCD actions (Weaponskills, Spells), with Skillspeed -> Physical Haste and Spellspeed -> Magical Haste only.

As you said, various jobs have their own Haste buffs, such as:

- Presence of Mind (WHM)
- Greased Lightning (MNK)
- Shifu (SAM)
- Huton (NIN)
- Army's Paeon (BRD)
- Ley Lines (BLM)

What does not qualify as Haste is "sudo-Haste" via Hypercharge allowing you to use 1.5s recast Weaponskills on MCH or actions that reduce recast timers on off-GCD actions (like Fell Cleave reducing Infuriate by 5s). They do increase the overall tempo of jobs for certain and depending on who you ask, might feel good, but they aren't falling under the actual definition of what Haste is.

Now that all is said and done about Haste...

Skillspeed and Spellspeed aren't dead stats. You still want to have a certain amount of it to adjust your GCD recast timer to either a value that comfortable for you due to latency or that lines up with your job's rotation better. Some jobs even require a minimum amount of skillspeed to be played properly without losses due to game mechanics (like Blood Weapon from DRK needing you to have at least 2.43s GCD recast if not faster to give room for latency and / or jitter to get the 5th MP+Blood tick; I recommend 2.40s).

[SayoTharonel]

I will say, however, that melding Tenacity for mitigation is highly unnecessary at current gear levels, so I would recommend against it unless you're planning on doing Ultimate.

That's the point. I got to admit that I'm not into savage and ultimate content so it's not that of a problem if a few points go wasted. But still, I like to improve my stats in a useful way.

Its more useful than you think but still not great.

E.G with 2.4k Tenacity instead of 2.4k Det. You would have 6.1% damage and mitigation instead of 8.1% damage, so for roughly 2.1% less damage done you take up 6.1% less damage.

So not great to focus on, but don't be too mad to have some on your gear its not that awful.

Hmm, those Numbers are quite interesting. Consindering that as a Tank survivability should be top priority, not dps. Still, due to gear options I currently have I will invest some Phantasmagoria to get some Crit/Det. back and reduce Ten. back to where it was before (like 1200-1400ish).

Thank you for your answers.

[DRKoftheAzure]

That's the point. I got to admit that I'm not into savage and ultimate content so it's not that of a problem if a few points go wasted. But still, I like to improve my stats in a useful way.



Hmm, those Numbers are quite interesting. Consindering that as a Tank survivability should be top priority, not dps. Still, due to gear options I currently have I will invest some Phantasmagoria to get some Crit/Det. back and reduce Ten. back to where it was before (like 1200-1400ish).

Thank you for your answers.

Tenacity doesn't really shine by itself, but with Crit. Hit, Direct Hit Rate, and Determination, because that is when you see the most DPS gain on tanks.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Alright, before any confusion ends up happening, let's first declare what even qualifies as "Haste".

Haste is the general term for buffs that reduce recast time of GCD actions (Weaponskills, Spells), with Skillspeed -> Physical Haste and Spellspeed -> Magical Haste only.

As you said, various jobs have their own Haste buffs, such as:

- Presence of Mind (WHM)
- Greased Lightning (MNK)
- Shifu (SAM)
- Huton (NIN)
- Army's Paeon (BRD)
- Ley Lines (BLM)

What does not qualify as Haste is "sudo-Haste" via Hypercharge allowing you to use 1.5s recast Weaponskills on MCH or actions that reduce recast timers on off-GCD actions (like Fell Cleave reducing Infuriate by 5s). They do increase the overall tempo of jobs for certain and depending on who you ask, might feel good, but they aren't falling under the actual definition of what Haste is.

Now that all is said and done about Haste...

Skillspeed and Spellspeed aren't dead stats. You still want to have a certain amount of it to adjust your GCD recast timer to either a value that comfortable for you due to latency or that lines up with your job's rotation better. Some jobs even require a minimum amount of skillspeed to be played properly without losses due to game mechanics (like Blood Weapon from DRK needing you to have at least 2.43s GCD recast if not faster to give room for latency and / or jitter to get the 5th MP+Blood tick; I recommend 2.40s).

Which is why I said "technically" for WAR, SMN and MCH, but they are not true haste effects, like MNKs Greased Lightning.


Would true haste effects combined with pseudo-haste effects, make certain jobs more fun and have more flow? More likely yes. Would it make it a bit unbalanced? Yes, without a doubt, but at least it would still be fun than spamming Fell Cleave 5 times in a row, which MCH has their own variant of Fell Cleave which, isn't completely broken because you can only use it up to 5 times and makes their charges come back faster than WAR.