Please bring back 8v8v8 Frontlines

[EnigmaticDodo]

This really was a bad move on their part. It just flys counter to sense. Folks should be careful about what they complain about because square actually listens to the feedback (it seems) and handled it by removing it entirely.

[Lauront]

God yes, please do. 72 man is atrocious, badly balanced and has terrible queue times. Ranged dps are just free kills for me as a melee dps. Who came up with this garbage?

SE doesn't remotely care about PvP in this game, that much should be clear as day at this point.

They consistently remove game modes people enjoy (The Fold/8v8 Feast/Slaughter/48 and 24 player FLs/etc.).
They're so committed to Feast as a game mode that we're stuck with what, a 7 month long preseason? Can you imagine the uproar if we had 7 months with no PvE content?
To top it off, radio silence on any PvP related issues. Zero communication what-so-ever, while smaller games with smaller teams communicate their plans far more effectively. There's a reason the small indie meme sticks with XIV...

The fact that the developers cannot even be asked to respond to concerned regarding 8v8v8s removal, which plenty of people rely on to even play PvP in this game at all, should really be the final nail in the coffin IMO. The entire PvP section of this forum was basically flooded with "This is a bad idea, don't do this" threads the moment this disaster was announced, but apparently that's not enough. We all saw the issues clear as day ahead of time, but SE chooses to ignore us. This dev team just well and truly does not care about PvP in this game. People cannot get into the Firmament on their server? Pretty much an instant reply from Yoshida himself. Players cannot get into FLs because of this change? Can't get into Feast because it's apparently been forgotten? Yeah lets just completely ignore that. Guess we should be happy we're getting a new FL map that nobody asked for, while losing the ability to even get into matches because 8v8v8 was removed for zero reason? Don't make me laugh.

I get that this is a PvE focused game, and PvP will always be the unwanted child, but at this point perhaps it's best to just remove it altogether then? If you're not going to do something right, don't bother at all. All SE seems to do with PvP is waste development resources and build resentment among the small PvP community by treating them like this. Just forget PvP completely and treat it like Chocobo Racing or Lords of Verminion, I honestly think that would be an improvement at this point, given every time they do touch PvP, it seems to be one step forward before hurtling themselves back to square one each time... A shame, because I actually enjoyed PvP in this game, but watching SE butcher it over and over has gotten rather tiresome. Ideally actually hire some full time developers to work on PvP, actually have a PvP team that's working on it independently from the rest of the game, this "We have one guy working on it during his coffee break" style of development really needs to stop though. As I said, either do it right, or don't bother at all.

Yeah, I can't help but agree.

[JowyAtreides]

Let's wait and see what happens when we get the new map.

You're not going to get casual pvp players while there is literally no reason to do it right now seeing as the mogtome and garo events are finished.

[Gula]

Let's wait and see what happens when we get the new map.

You're not going to get casual pvp players while there is literally no reason to do it right now seeing as the mogtome and garo events are finished.

This and this. Yoshi P has outright said they don't bother with PVP for main expansion launches because everyone is doing the MSQ. And while we're on post launch, I've seen a lot more people crafting, farming YoRHa and doing everything but pvp.

PVP has to wait for its turn in the bathroom after big bro MSQ showers, Raid brushes her teeth, and Crafting puts on her make up.

[SturmChurro]

This and this. Yoshi P has outright said they don't bother with PVP for main expansion launches because everyone is doing the MSQ. And while we're on post launch, I've seen a lot more people crafting, farming YoRHa and doing everything but pvp.

PVP has to wait for its turn in the bathroom after big bro MSQ showers, Raid brushes her teeth, and Crafting puts on her make up.

Extremely shortsighted. PvP, if good, is great for further play after completing something one and done like MSQ, or doing the same no difficulty raid over and over, for a bugged out glamour. Once you have your weekly item, and glamour. There is nothing else to do. I suppose the people who like idle games can play their snore-fest crafting, but good PvP can keep a community going beyond that - All they need is a good base to start from.

At the moment nobody can even play PvP with the removal of 8v8v8, whether it was good or not. Whether people wanted to play or not, getting 72 players together is not a small ask. Completely backwards to remove this all because of "win trading". SE takes the lazy route and carpet bombs the mode instead.

What will happen with new map is, it will be a gimmick for a week, maybe 2, then it will be the same as it is now. The mode completely dead until prime time for a few hours a night.

[Nalien]

This and this. Yoshi P has outright said they don't bother with PVP for main expansion launches because everyone is doing the MSQ.

Citation, please? Because my memory goes back rather far;

3.05 - Seal Rock is introduced as a new Frontlines map, widely regarded as one of the better Frontlines maps too might I add, so much so that Yoshida has described the upcoming new map as a Seal Rock II.
4.0 - Saw a complete overhaul of PvP actions. Wont comment on the quality of such an adjustment, but it was there right at launch all the same.
4.05 - Season 5 of Feast kicked off, lasting until 4.15.
5.0 - While nothing on the level of 4.0s changes, we did once again see adjustment to PvP actions. Made their whole "We're not talking about PvP yet" during pre-release interviews a bit odd, given they did actually have changes to show us, just that they opted not to talk about them in the lead up to the expansion because... PvPers aren't worth it, I guess?

They clearly do bother with PvP at expansion launches. They do balance changes, and in the past, they delivered new maps and Feast seasons with far more expedience than they have with Shadowbringers. Shadowbringers, for some reason, has seen a shift in their approach to PvP. They're clearly still bothering, it's just their approach is... Muddled? I don't know, that's the best way I can describe it. I wish they weren't, as you put it, bothering with PvP right now, because then we'd still have 24 player Frontlines to enjoy. As it is, they're focusing purely on Frontlines, completely at the expense of Feast for some reason (I thought Feast and the FRC was SEs up and coming eSports (a joke in it's own right), why then throw it under the bus like this?), and then awkwardly deciding to just butcher Frontlines all the same. Imagine if they announced the new dungeons for Shadowbringers, then also announced that they're deleting the Duty Finder, that's the level of bewilderment I feel here. It's still possible to get into Frontlines, it's just now far harder and pops far rarer than it needs to be, because... Why exactly? As I said, I wish they were doing nothing with PvP right now. Nothing is better than being shot in the foot like this...

Like... I don't mind the new map being in 5.15, when Seal Rock was 3.05. A delay like that is completely understandable. Feast seasons simply not happening anymore? Less understandable, there's no real reason we couldn't have had at least one season already. Everything else? It's just a complete and utter nonsensical mess... I mean... Why were the 5.0 changes there to begin with? They were almost completely swept away by 5.1, and for the most part I think 5.0 was a solid improvement (some jobs of coursed needed some more attention, but I'm sure they could have gotten it if literally every job wasn't then changed), where as 5.1 is a disaster... It's like they showed us that 5.x PvP had some great potential with 5.0, then decided to just throw it all away with 5.1, to cripple Frontlines, not bother with Feast or Rival Wings... I just cannot get my head around what their development cycle must be like for any of this to have happened...

[Awha]

Let's wait and see what happens when we get the new map.

You're not going to get casual pvp players while there is literally no reason to do it right now seeing as the mogtome and garo events are finished.

The thing is when it was 8 v 8 v 8 people could get pops, even when participation was low, in the grand scheme for me personally I rather be able to do 8 v 8 v 8 over not being able to pvp at all.

The maps were made for 24v24v24, playing them 8v8v8 is like searching people in the Sagolii Desert.

Shrinking map to 1/3 maybe best suited for 8v8v8.

I rather do that then not get any pops at all.

This and this. Yoshi P has outright said they don't bother with PVP for main expansion launches because everyone is doing the MSQ. And while we're on post launch, I've seen a lot more people crafting, farming YoRHa and doing everything but pvp.

PVP has to wait for its turn in the bathroom after big bro MSQ showers, Raid brushes her teeth, and Crafting puts on her make up.

This would make sense if pvp did not pop at all with 8 v 8 v 8, but 8 v 8 v 8 at popped even at none prime time, so it was a net positive removing it simply made PvP even more of a patch cycle content.

[LalaRu]

The maps were made for 24v24v24, playing them 8v8v8 is like searching people in the Sagolii Desert.

Shrinking map to 1/3 maybe best suited for 8v8v8.

[rachcouture]

I always preferred 8v8v8, honestly. 24v24v24 comes down to whoever zergs better; no real strategy whatsoever since getting 72 people to listen to callouts is downright impossible.

[Nedkel]

This game was never, not ever, designed around pvp. People kept asking and asking and asking. You got PVP. Don't act like XIV is Overwatch or built from the ground up for anything but PvE. And SE is more than just XIV. It's Dissidia, it's Hitman, it's Deus Ex and so much more.

There is a tiny smol difference the size of jupiter between developing pvp slowly due to the smaller amount of resources and making it completely unplayable by dividing playerbase, taking away easier to queue matches and not giving any rewards for playing pvp with the pvp roullete.