PLD VS WAR (main tank)

[Aceofspades]

I come from FFXI as a MNK , but I always focused on what ever class i did and learned the mechanics of every job aspect and ability to finely tune my abilities as wich ever class i decided to master. In XIV I have decided to master the "Tank" role. Going to cut strait to the chase. Bottom line, PLD needs improvment even after todays patch, hate control aside, pld is missing one very essential ability to its baic mechanics. PLD lacks the ability to regen its own MP. Without this crucial ability I belive Warior has a wide open door to take PLDs only place in the game realy, Single boss mob / main tank. It is my belife that WAR was intended to be a crowd controler and was given ample def, HP regen ability, hate control and AOE damage ability. However there was no govenor to keep these abilities tied to a "crowd controll" situation only. Soo the result we end up with WAR as the new perfered tank, this leaves PLD in the cold. Suggestions on how to fix this: Holy Veil already beats PLD's 15 minute abilty , "Sacred Ground" should replace Sacred Ground with an ability that would regen PLD's MP to full bar, or increase the duration of the Invunerabilty and expand its range to magic attacks as well. Even tho this may be a bit over powering would be nice to see a mp regen effect acording to damage absorbed by Holy Ground (converts damage absorbed to mp gained)

[GreyJorildyn]

I wouldn't mind seeing something like Chivalry from XI, which converted TP to MP at a certain ratio. That might assist MP problems PLD's could potentially have.

However their MP isn't necessarily the problem. WAR does a ton of damage, has higher HP, and is a beast in Rampage mode. With the accessibility of crit rate+ gear and the HP you can gain from Mogaxe, WAR is a self-sustaining powerhouse right now. PLD isn't going to ever do that amount of damage so they've gotta give it something so good that people will want them over WARs for another reason.

[Aceofspades]

well Wariors are built for crowd controll, ample opertunity for that in cc. MP regen would help termendously tho, Tanks shouldnt worry bout dealing damage thats what your DDs are for, they simply should just keep hate and stay alive . Self heals are the most efficient way to do both (soo long as the heals are powerfull and frequent enough)

[GreyJorildyn]

If you're referring to the old school idea of a "tank", then I agree--they should not concern themselves with dealing damage. Unfortunately dealing damage is a way to make tank jobs appealing. It can also be included in the balancing act of a class. There is no rule that says you cannot do this, it is merely how SE desires to envision a tank. Furthermore, the most efficient way to keep hate is using a taunt ability. The most efficient way to stay alive to avoid damage, not healing yourself. So heals are just what you compromise on (thus not mutually exclusive), they're not necessarily the most efficient way to do anything other than "cure HP". Think about this for a hot minute and you'll see my point.

Ask yourself this: What was the most significant patched addition in for PLD in XI? The addition of Atonement. The other was owning an Excalibur. Both of these allowed PLD to deal damage (one earned hate, the other did not, but still damage nonetheless). People desire their tanks to be DPS classes to some degree. The idea is modern and has taken flight in many MMOs to date.

Turtle tanks are nice and all, but it really is an outdated concept.

[Aceofspades]

I disagree, a tank who can focus on their MAIN purpose frees the healers to do more then just focus on the tank. a WHM has more DD potential then a PLD, and arguably the same as a WAR, and a BLM or DRG has more DD potential then all 3. Soo if heals are less needed to keep the tank alive and the tank can still manage hate then more damage can be added to the party then if your tank half assed his/her job and wanted to score more damage to the mob, besides , when a tank becomes distracted with trying to parse high on damage they can easly forget their MAIN purpose , and that is to keep hate and stay alive. Party mechanics have and always will rely on each member doing their particular task to the best of their ability , or like we say in the Army, scan your zone. in wich to say to not bardge on your buddy's, your doing more harm then good, becuase if your not watching your zone cuz your too busy trying to take your budies target , your target has all the time in the world to focus aim on your dome. Soo would i add ATK or VIT to my sword? the obvious answer should be VIT, but if you wana be a jack of all trade you will never be an expert at any one.

[GreyJorildyn]

You just said WHM arguably has the same potential "DD" as a WAR. I probably should have stopped reading there.

Look, get on WAR, turn on Rampage, wear lotsa crit gear, and go Steel Cyclone things to death. WAR can keep itself alive quite well without anything ever casting a spell. Is it as controlled? No, but you also can't interrupt my weapon skills with melee attacks. Not one target nor the 8 that get facerolled by SC.

Also if you're looking to keep hate, I think you'd be better off with Enmity on your sword. You could go with VIT though I suppose, but I've never seen the rationale with that.

[Aceofspades]

well to each their own, and i have had double stacked emnity on my sword, parsed better with vit, just saying, there is how a job makes you feel like a bad ass and how a job actaully performs as its intended purpose. I have seen WAR take on Ifrit, and I watch the HP bar drop FAST, all that 1k hp dose is buy the mage enough time to keep the WAR alive. Not saying war shouldnt tank Ifrit, just saying its by no means superior to PLD or GLD for that.

[GreyJorildyn]

WAR is a superior tank to PLD on Ifrit too. Ifrit can be tanked by a mage anyway.

[Aceofspades]

Lols, ok buddy, just gona classify you as troll now. if it wasnt for 2x whm in a party war would wipe before first rage, I can solo Ifrit b4 first rage (by wich i mean no heals or buffs) and there have been many a time I have had no healers after hell fire for periods of and more then 30 seconds, I GARENTEE, your WAR wouldnt last 15 seconds in that position. I know cuz i have seen FAIL after FAIL after FAIL when a WAR tanked on a PUG group. soo Belive what you want, PLD is far superior in boss fights.

[GreyJorildyn]

So PUG groups are your way of gauging if something works well or not. Got it.

edit: which part was I trolling with btw? I can clarify all those points if you'd like.