war out tanking pld?

[Raikki]

Another PLD supporter, another person who's not playing 1.21 content. Trend or coincidence?

[Aceofspades]

Another PLD supporter, another person who's not playing 1.21 content. Trend or coincidence?

how do you mean? and even if what you say did mean anything, how dose that make what i have posted incorrect? Another WAR supporter , and even more lack of evidance, Trend or coincidence?

[Raikki]

how do you mean? and even if what you say did mean anything, how dose that make what i have posted incorrect? Another WAR supporter , and even more lack of evidance, Trend or coincidence?

What "evidance" [sic] are you looking for? Logs of two completely different people tanking months old content like you provided, without even a DD comparison? I could give you multiple Ifrit MRD tank parses from 1.19 where the tank's damage taken per second varies between less than 60 and greater than 90 (both MRD). I could even post parses of the same exact person where the damage taken per second varies by 15-20 DPS between fights, AND the higher damage taken fight is beaten faster. In fact, higher damage taken per second on the tank usually correlated to Ifrit using more abilities on the tank which freed the melee DDs to deal more damage.

But no, how about instead I direct you here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Burn-Strategy

WAR tank, 1 WHM, massive DPS. Since PLD is "better" and we all just "suck at PLD" and "take the easy way out with WAR", surely you can do better than this.

[Aceofspades]

lols soo your best response to me posting parses of a PLD "TANK" taking far less damage then a WAR "TANK" is to show how a MRD "TANK" can do more damage? Maybe you should see the video of thm "TANKING" ifrit. that would be like be proving that I can out dd a whm on a "whose a better healer" forum. your not ignorant, your just dumb... Tanks survive big hits and keep hate, that is their main concern, if you can do this realy well and do damage then more power to you, fact is WAR can not take damage well and dose not take damage well enless you severly gimp there DPS abilities and dress them like a tank. big dummy

[Raikki]

Tanks survive big hits and keep hate, that is their main concern, if you can do this realy well and do damage then more power to you

correct

fact is WAR can not take damage well and dose not take damage well enless you severly gimp there DPS abilities and dress them like a tank. big dummy

incorrect

Try doing the content first.

P.S.: I'm still waiting for you to one-up Kaeko's Mistress video using PLD tank.

[SwordCoheir]

The link Alerith provided a few pages ago is true, most stats in this game do give low returns and there is a point defense falls off greatly, beyond that point the only thing that will do anything for defense is -damage taken JA's like Hallowed Ground, Vengeance, and Sentinel or Blocking/Parrying. That's not saying that you shouldn't be prepared to have more defense available because of level differences between the player and a higher level mobs causes the falloff point to change.

[Aceofspades]

only reason def falls off for most is because they fail to focus back on vit, increasing vit improves the amount of damage deflected by def as well as your HP

I have no parses yet to post , till i get them sent to me , this is what i found when testing def on 58 mobs (sphene doblyns)


WAR ifrit's axe
cobalt gear: 644def 96 dmg 282vit (291 avg dmg taken) 3664 hp

AF gear : 586def 292vit (334 avg dmg taken) 3688 hp

058def 96/58=1.66 dmg per def added


PLD no shield
cobalt gear: 656def 292vit (286 avg dmg taken) 3167 hp

AF gear: 604def 278vit (312 avg dmg taken) 2937 hp

PLD with shield
cobalt gear: 695def 292vit (262 avg dmg taken) 3167 hp

cobalt gear: 695def 315vit (248 avg dmg taken) 3190 hp (with a vit+ cobalt winglet.)

tests were done with no jewlry added. I do recomend def materia melded over vit simply because you can add 36 vit on hq rings alone, then you can add vit to legs and the sword , wich leaves only two spots in wich to add def. I recomend to keep the ratio 1 vit for every 2 def. dmg deflected overtime is a MUCH higher payoff over HP materia added. That being said, anytime you anticipate a quick and fairly painless fight, WAR is a better option simply for its ability to add to the dps, but if damage taken or keeping the tank alive for any duration past a 5 minute fight, I would go with a PLD tank as the safest route.

[SwordCoheir]

When I was talking about falloff point I was meaning like in the 800-1000 defense range where the defense:mob attack ratio falls off due to the limited capacity a player has to actually stack VIT to support the higher defense.

That floor isn't all that hard to reach on either jobs due to the little differences in gear and abilities available to WAR and PLD. For instance my stats on WAR and PLD with a tanking setup w/o buffs or food.

WAR Ifrits Axe:
673 Def, 310 VIT, 3673 HP

PLD Ifrits Blade w/o Shield:
682 Def, 320 VIT, 3164 HP

PLD Ifrits Blade:
698 Def, 320 VIT, 3164 HP

PLD VIT+ Sword:
698 Def, 344 VIT, 3188 HP

The only real difference between the two jobs comes down to the +Def Sheild and the WAR's higher base hp (WAR can get a +VIT axe). The tradeoff is WAR gets the bonus damage from VIT where PLD doesn't, the only bad part about that is the damage bonus on WAR from the extra VIT is going to be much more noticeable than what little (if any) damage is reduced with extra defense from the shield on PLD once that high falloff point is reached.

Since WAR can reach that high falloff point easily and still enjoy the -%damage taken from both Sentinel and Vengeance, extra HP buffer, on top of high DPS and good (free) self healing capacity it gives little incentive to bring a PLD for most things outside of kiting multiple mobs. Unfortunately that is something were going to have to deal with unless they boost PLD's DPS, change the way defense works and give PLD a boost, or allow us a secondary -% damage taken tool like WAR has, hell I dunno maybe allow us to parry with a shield and allow us to mitigate an extra hit every now and again with Foresight.

[Aceofspades]

did you say 800 def is easy to acomplish? well , good luck with that, as far as vit giving a bigger damage boost to WAR, I beilive its only tp moves in wich it receives the damage boost and attack/str stats are more benificial in that case, soo by adding vit to war you actually gimping its DPS, as far as self heals on WAR, again that is based off of damage delt. Fact is WAR cant do realy good dps without gimping its def and vise versa. I think alot of people are trying to make war more then what it is, I however am going off the stats that actually exist. As far as there being a drop off point for def, I honestly couldnt confirm or deny any claims simply because I havent reached 800 def before buffs or food, I can tell you tho anytime my DEF gose up past 800 due to food or buffs I do see a noticable differance in damage taken. Alot of what people put out on these forums seem to sound more like wishfull thinking vs actual fact.

[Alerith]

did you say 800 def is easy to acomplish?

I'm not trying to strike up another argument, but in what way is getting 800 DEF difficult? I understand you said buffs and food in your previous post, but those aren't difficult to obtain as just Protect and Knight Bread is enough to push 800 so I'm not quite comprehending where the difficulty comes in.

You can easily break 900 with additional buffs as well.