war out tanking pld?

[Alerith]

good, say somthing when you can prove the words coming outa your mouth are true. Till then please stop litering these forums in wich the Devs use to adjust the game, with falicies and Lies. Fact : DEF reduces damage delt, and the higher it is the less damage you will take. only damage that is not included in this statment is magical, in wich case Stone Skin, a WHM/CNJ protect, rampart, BLM/THM's Sanguine Rite, piety and magical resist can help with that.

Sweet jeezus, you aren't even comprehending the argument.

Nobody, not even me, has said that defense doesn't do what it's supposed to do. We are saying that what it does is useless because the difference in the damage you take with the amount of defense required to do it can easily be made up for, and surpassed, by higher HP.

Fact: It's easier to put 40HP into an armor piece than it is to increase your defense enough to reduce the damage you take by 40. And guess what? HP applies to magic damage too! Holy balls! Can you imagine?

Bloodthirst IV increases your max HP by 55 points.
Bloodwall IV increases your DEF by +16.

According to the testing, you know what +16 gets you? Not -55 physical damage taken. Even if you double, triple or quad meld a pair of Sentinel's Gauntlets with +DEF materia, they aren't going to beat out a pair of Sentinel's Gauntlets with a double, triple or quad meld of +HP materia of the same calibur.

Yes. Defense reduces the physical damage you take the higher the value is (until you reach a certain point.) That does not nullify my argument that HP is better and stacking HP will perform better than trying to stack DEF to get a similar result.

[Aceofspades]

Sweet jeezus, you aren't even comprehending the argument.

Nobody, not even me, has said that defense doesn't do what it's supposed to do. We are saying that what it does is useless because the difference in the damage you take with the amount of defense required to do it can easily be made up for, and surpassed, by higher HP.

Fact: It's easier to put 40HP into an armor piece than it is to increase your defense enough to reduce the damage you take by 40. And guess what? HP applies to magic damage too! Holy balls! Can you imagine?

Bloodthirst IV increases your max HP by 55 points.
Bloodwall IV increases your DEF by +16.

According to the testing, you know what +16 gets you? Not -55 physical damage taken. Even if you double, triple or quad meld a pair of Sentinel's Gauntlets with +DEF materia, they aren't going to beat out a pair of Sentinel's Gauntlets with a double, triple or quad meld of +HP materia of the same calibur.

Yes. Defense reduces the physical damage you take the higher the value is (until you reach a certain point.) That does not nullify my argument that HP is better and stacking HP will perform better than trying to stack DEF to get a similar result.

No, what nullifies your Argument is the fact that me taking even 10 less damage then you , over a corse of a fight = more HP then you have melded to your armor. Hense taking less damage in turn save your more HP then you can add to gear. Wich explains why the value of DEF per materia is much less greater then that of the HP per materia. Soo if 16 def = -10 damage then 100 def will equal 100 less damage per hit wich even further devalues that HP materia you are soo intent on.

[Alerith]

No, what nullifies your Argument is the fact that me taking even 10 less damage then you , over a corse of a fight = more HP then you have melded to your armor. Hense taking less damage in turn save your more HP then you can add to gear. Wich explains why the value of DEF per materia is much less greater then that of the HP per materia. Soo if 16 def = -10 damage then 100 def will equal 100 less damage per hit wich even further devalues that HP materia you are soo intent on.

Currently, what fight in the entire game lasts long enough where physical damage reduction outlasts higher HP? And according to Kanican's testing, it takes roughly 30 DEF to reduce physical damage taken by roughly five. (I didn't do the exact math, so I won't claim an exact correlation.)

Also quoted from the testing: "Another notable feature if we look at the table of data is that there appears to be a cap on the amount of defense one can stack before no gains are seen. In the table, defense works up to the point where the damage range becomes 35-42 (38.5 predicted average). "

Which means at that point, any further increase in defense nets you no gains. I'm unaware of an HP cap at the moment. (Though I've never tried to quad-meld every item I own with tier IV HP materia.)

its in the patch notes when they gave us emnity with the combo.

It says that enmity is now the combo bonus. I'll go back and look, but I don't recall anything about the enmity varying with your HP.

[Aceofspades]

Because of the reduced recast time from 2 minutes to 60 seconds they reduced the efectivness of flat blade to fast blade to be influenced by mind, and when they introduced the combo it was stated that the % of your HP bar at the time the combo was used would effect the Enmity it generated. Maybe it was in dev notes, none the less it was there and I read it. But you did find the patch notes it would only be right of me to find the letter stating what I have said. be a minute tho

[Aceofspades]

its in the patch notes when they gave us emnity with the combo.

[Alerith]

All I'm getting from the patch notes for Spirit's Within is:

- Recast time reduced from 120 to 60 seconds.
- Revised effect:
Delivers a high-accuracy melee attack at close range. Increased damage with greater current HP.
Combo Action: Phalanx
Combo Bonus: Increased enmity.

Nothing about HP affecting the enmity.

[Aceofspades]

again your refering to a chart that has nothing to counter the solid evidance I posted. His (un proven) results over my parses that have the raw data staring you in the face? Maybe his stuff is dated but like I have said before, show me SOLID data and I will aknowledge your argument. What you brought to the table is simple theory that is still unsuported. I can disprove that entire link with one FRAPS of PLing.... I mean why is this even up for debate? the evidance is In your face anytime you do anything battle related in the game, the higher your DEF the less damage you take and if the rate was 30 def for 5 damage then mages and archers would have a MUCH easier time taking damage. Like I said, I came with solid evidance. Show some respect and do the same, or dont judge my findings.

[Aceofspades]

>< ok , I miss read or just forgot the details but its one in the same, as you said, damage = enmity , and as the patch notes say, the higher you HP is the more damage it will do , sooo in turn the higher your hp the more enmity it will deliver. Roundabout but its still the same outcome.

Spirits Within - Recast time reduced from 120 to 60 seconds.
- Revised effect:
Delivers a high-accuracy melee attack at close range. Increased damage with greater current HP.
Combo Action: Phalanx
Combo Bonus: Increased enmity.

[Alerith]

>< ok , I miss read or just forgot the details but its one in the same, as you said, damage = enmity , and as the patch notes say, the higher you HP is the more damage it will do , sooo in turn the higher your hp the more enmity it will deliver. Roundabout but its still the same outcome.

Spirits Within - Recast time reduced from 120 to 60 seconds.
- Revised effect:
Delivers a high-accuracy melee attack at close range. Increased damage with greater current HP.
Combo Action: Phalanx
Combo Bonus: Increased enmity.

Whew. I woulda been pissed if I had missed something that huge. Thankfully we don't lose enmity with lower HP. (Not from the 'Increases Enmity' effect anyways.)

[Aceofspades]

anyways... bed time now. As far as DEF over HP, would explain why alot of PLDs who stack HP are going with war now, their old HP gear for GLA isnt cutting the mustard because its build isnt compatable with PLD. Soo they go with the easiest tank to play and QQ that PLD is broke simply because they can not figure it out. To each their own. But stating falicies as facts on a website in wich a large player base come to get viable information and in wich our development team utilizes to determan wich jobs/stat/abilties ect ect to invest time into repairing, is simply wrong. and people should have done their own SOLID testing before posting theories devloped by another (probably biast) player that posted no parses , videos or anything of the sort to back his/her findings as facts.