war out tanking pld?

[SwordCoheir]

*Stuff*

Umm, don't take this the wrong way because I'm not judging your skill based on what you said, but it doesn't make much sense for ANY tank to NOT use ALL the tools available to them weather or not they need the help controlling hate and reducing damage. Even if I'm not having hate issues I still spam flash on PLD and voke on WAR due to their blind/atk.down effects and I still use Sentinel and Rampart religiously for defensive purposes, Collusion if anything just let's melee/nukers get a little wilder DPSing without fear getting hate which is always good IMO.

And FYI I play both jobs quite a bit and rarely have the need to use Collusion outside of maybe keeping BLM's alive when they cast AoEs on large groups of weak mobs, so please don't assume I'm dependent on the ability.


King Mog fight is actually a poor example for hate control because it's wonky to begin with, I speak from vast experience with both the King and Wiskerwall where I can on BRD/ARC, die, get back up and go back to binding them, and still randomly get hate regardless of how many times the PLD/GLA Flash/Vokes him or the massive enmity the WHMs have built up curing.

[HiirNoivl]

Oh... well on moogle we will kill the moogle GLA early on... and I keep the king targeted so that when he resets I just use Flash and he's back on me....

I don't have the spam on PLD. That's another reason why I like it so much. I can generate so much hate that half the time, I'll just have to flash the Moogle King (because it's AoE) and keep them all in line. I used that example because I like it so much on PLD. It's so relaxing on PLD, a leisurely stroll through Thornmarch. Kiting moogles on WAR and keeping hate on them on WAR and being a DPS on WAR during that fight kinda really sucks.

On other battles, such as Coincounter, the party never even notices the hate reset. Ifrit... well Ifrit's got a one track mind and was easy to tank always.

Tanking really limits WAR as well. I would much rather keep hate while the WAR in the party go wild swinging axes here there and everywhere and the mobs drop like stones.

I just really disagree that WAR out tanks PLD... Out-DPS, sure. But out-tank? Naaaah.

[Raikki]

So we've gone from "WAR is bad and can't generate enough enmity" to "PLD works fine for me so I don't want to learn WAR" to "I like PLD because it's less hectic to play". I don't mean any offense and you're MORE than welcome to play the game the way you enjoy it, but for PLD to satisfy me (and most other serious players) it needs to be measurably good relative to WAR tanking. Yes, that means factoring in the damage it contributes. It also means looking at what WAR can do even if it's hectic and uncomfortable for you to play that way.

It's not a coincidence that all the serious LSes independently decided on WAR tanking this patch (I think it's safe enough to make this claim, correct me if I'm wrong). This is not anyone saying "it's impossible to tank with PLD" or "it's impossible to do 5 chest speedruns with PLD" because those would both be stupid claims. It's about pure efficiency. That's the last I plan on saying about this but I'll be online if you want to discuss more in /tells.

[Myrhn]

for me i will consider a pld better than war when 1 whm is enough to keep everyone alive

[HiirNoivl]

Raikki, I am allowed to make more than one point. All of what I said is valid. It's not going from one point to another. I have many many reasons for saying that WAR does not out-tank PLD.

I don't care what any other LS does either does either. I'm quite serious about my tanking, and that's why tanking on WAR irritates me. WAR is more hectic because it's doing something it wasn't really designed to do. WAR is not supposed to be a tank that's why it's more challenging to tank on WAR. Why make it hard?

[SwordCoheir]

Nope SE pretty much said WAR was designed to be as an HP tank, what pisses off the majority of the PLD community (and the general consensus of the complaints on here) is they gave WAR more favorable tanking abilities and damage mitigation that favors most current content (King Mog being the only real exception).

Both jobs hold hate fine in their respective fields, but there really isn't a gap that put's PLD above WAR in most any situation, in fact there isn't really a gap at all between the two jobs tank wise save for WAR's much higher DPS. Compare WAR and PLD defensively they're almost equal due to gear similarities and defensive JA's, if you count Vengeance it gives WAR a -50% damage taken on top of the -30% given from Sentinel making WAR mitigate more damage over time, SE even went a step further and gave WAR ridiculous self healing capabilities with Rampage that stacks with AoEs, makes them stronger as they take damage, and toss in a free heal from Second Wind every 45 seconds. That's just the tip of iceberg really.

[HiirNoivl]

I talked with others about this and what it is is that there's a lot of expectations that people had and PLD doesn't meet them. It's not that there's something wrong with PLD tanking is that people expected it to be something other than what they got. As for HP tank, I'm not sure where they said that, maybe you could link to it.

I had no expectations. So I'm happy with it for the most part. Go figure.

[Madruk]

Why is it everytime someone claims pld is better than war they've yet to do the new dungeons?

Paladin is not as useful because of the way content is designed. It's designed around speed of completion and the paladin just cannot keep up with a warrior in this regard. That's all there is to it. Can a paladin tank anything in the game effectively? Sure they can, and if you're that dead set on paladin by all means. If you want to do it more efficiently, the warrior will always come out on top.

[HiirNoivl]

Why are you commenting on my posts when you haven't read my posts?

[Madruk]

I read your posts. Your experiences come from Moogle and Ifrit, arguably the easiest fights in the game. Ifrit is a single target encounter, something a paladin can shine at (but still do less dps than a warrior). Moogle is just flash and run around kiting.

Dungeons are a whole different ball game. Like I said the paladin can tank effectively. Where it falls short is efficiency, something the warrior can offer the group that the paladin cannot.