Everyone's talking about smn buffs. But what about mch

[zonol]

A non utility class with crap dps. compared to classes that brings more and do close to the same dps if not more. I\\'m starting to think square enix hates this class. Mch needs more.

[Rika007]

A non utility class with crap dps. compared to classes that brings more and do close to the same dps if not more. I\\'m starting to think square enix hates this class. Mch needs more.

Well currently it's easily the strongest of the three ranged. Which unfortunately means nothing as all 3 ranged are very weak right now. As a whole they all need to be brought either up, or be given more utility to offset the 'mobility tax'.

[Valence]

Ranged physical jobs have had garbage DPS since early Stormblood. Stormblood only managed to hide that fact with the piercing debuff that brought those jobs up on par with other jobs.

Now, piercing is gone, and we can plainly see the sad state of it. ShB manages to lessen the problem by introducing the new party boni system that offers a buffer allowing some roles to deal less damage but still being taken for the party bonus. That buffer however was completely broken by how far behind ranged physical got until 5.1.

But yeah, we're still behind and it sucks. I have a problem with that mobility tax crap, especially when SE clearly stated that they stopped balancing jobs around difficulty in the early liveletters of Stormblood (LL 36 or 37).

[Lambdafish]

But yeah, we're still behind and it sucks. I have a problem with that mobility tax crap, especially when SE clearly stated that they stopped balancing jobs around difficulty in the early liveletters of Stormblood (LL 36 or 37).

My biggest issue with the mobility tax is that parses take it into account. Ranged are going to have much higher uptime than melee, which will bring their average DPS up. If the community can see that even with mobility tax that ranged are far lower than anything else, then so must SE.

Honestly I think SEs whole design philosophy for ranged physical is wrong. All 3 should be equal support jobs, dishing out similar amounts of rDPS as other jobs, but in a more supportive way.

[Akiudo]

Ranged physical jobs have had garbage DPS since early Stormblood. Stormblood only managed to hide that fact with the piercing debuff that brought those jobs up on par with other jobs.

i would actually disagree with that, gotta admit its hard without the correct data but if you take a look at the site that shall not be named brd/mch indeed were behind as far blm as they are now even though these ones allready got the 5% piercing buff so even with the change in metrics it looks like there dps actually sucked if you account for that.

HOWEVER, you have to see that this change in metrics goes both ways, brd and mch DPS support still was way stronger in stormblood than it is right now (mch actually having some and the bard passive being 2% crit all they way [with end of expansion crit values]) aswell as having foes, you have to remember that when you compare bard to blm for example (as that one is top dps at 95% in alphascape) one thing you lack is the dps the bard/mch buffed, say that one goes out as zero by current metrics after you take of the piercing buff, the other thing however is that you in fact are shown this dps on the blackmage which wouldn't happen by the current metric.

mind you without hard numbers its hard to really determine, but having to take a shot in the dark here it is a fair assumption that the difference between the top and the bottom if these things were accounted for indeed would have been a lot closer even if fflogs used their current metrics to show dps, furthermore there was A LOT more support on brd/mch back than, dismantle was awesome, and refresh probably was the most universally usefull utility in the game, think about how many classes got buffs to their mana generation after they took it out. Sadly i lack the numbers and am not a theorycrafter to go through all this, but i would take every bet the dps difference back than between phys/ranged and the top was actually a lot closer even without the piercing debuff, and even if it was in fact not that would still leave us at "they took out nearly all usefull utility, especially the most universally usefull utility the game had to offer and compensated out us with literally nothing"

[Valence]

It was by necessity bad back then since ranged physical weren't at the level of the selfish jobs (SAM, BLM...) or jobs with limited buffs (SMN, MNK, etc). In there they were more or less balanced, but with the piercing debuff padding the numbers.

Remove it and they were actually 5% lower. And in Heavensward, where the piercing buff was so strong that the creator meta was BRD/MCH, the buff was 10%. Let that sink for a minute. 10% is insane. Remove that and they were actually pretty low as well, even when they were actually part of the godlike double ranged meta.

[Akiudo]

It was by necessity bad back then since ranged physical weren't at the level of the selfish jobs (SAM, BLM...) or jobs with limited buffs (SMN, MNK, etc). In there they were more or less balanced, but with the piercing debuff padding the numbers.

Remove it and they were actually 5% lower. And in Heavensward, where the piercing buff was so strong that the creator meta was BRD/MCH, the buff was 10%. Let that sink for a minute. 10% is insane. Remove that and they were actually pretty low as well, even when they were actually part of the godlike double ranged meta.

see the part i underlined ? thats exactly my point, right now they aren't 5% lower, they are anywhere from 8-13% lower AND have lost usefull things like dismantle, palisade and refresh, if anything they would need to be closer than back when they had these things, yet they are in fact lower, and by quite a lot at that

edit:

Yes I agree. We were around 13-15% behind before 5.1, we're now (for MCH) around 8-9% behind the top dogs. Probably a tad higher for BRD.

at 95% bard literally is 13% below the top dogs, like even if mch was balanced (which it isn't) the difference between mch and bard alone is bigger than the difference between monk and the other melees was before the patch, and these were acting like the sky was falling even though melees generally get 2 spots and their difference at least was difference to the top, not "difference to the class that sucks the least out of the weakest role"

[Valence]

Yes I agree. We were around 13-15% behind before 5.1, we're now (for MCH) around 8-9% behind the top dogs. Probably a tad higher for BRD.

[BloodRubyXII]

MCH is decent, but it's got this horrendous power spike in gear where it suddenly becomes really good.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

MCH is decent, but it's got this horrendous power spike in gear where it suddenly becomes really good.

Other jobs also have that same spike in damage. That's why it's better to compare the upper parses from people who have best in slot gear so that the gear discrepancy is at a minimum.

Either way, the facts right now are that ranged are still miles behind despite their buffs. They needed around 8-10% before 5.1 to be within 500dps of the melee. Which is a good spot i think. The devs slacked on the buffs though and i'm unsure exactly why they are so scared to buff them higher. Maybe at the lower percentiles having mobility is a benefit but at the top end everyone's mobility and uptime is near enough the same and planned around. Regardless however, ranged (and rdm) still need to be brought up more. A small mobility tax is warranted yes, but it shouldn't be as detrimental as it. I'm still unsure how SMN escaped the rez tax and gained nearly 1.5k from buffs in 5.1 but all they could offer to the others low parsing jobs were between 500-800 dps. The balancing these devs do in this game is so inconsistent at times.