Savage is too easy

[HyoMinPark]

How does anyone call Savage easy when all it takes is for one player to miss a cue and the whole raid wipes? I just spent 5 hours doing OS8 with a pick up party and we never finished. Furthest we got was F3 and at that point there's too many mechanics going off at once for me to juggle.

It doesn't feel fun, it just feels like a chore. A chore you get no rewards for because failure is inevitable. Been beating my head against TitaniaEX the same way. Again, it just takes one person to goof and the whole thing goes to pot. Still haven't gotten a clear on that either despite 40 or so tries.

I gasp at the thought of what people like the OP might consider to be reasonable difficulty.

They’re by far harder than any other content in this game (aside from Ultimate), but current Savage is a shadow of how hard it used to be. The likes of Second Coil and Midas laugh at Eden. (We won’t count Gordias in this because it was overtuned and poorly tested, but there is a reason why raiders from early HW saw Living Liquid in TEA and had PTSD flashbacks about it). The developers are so keen to make Savage accessible that it’s come at the cost of its difficulty over the years. There have been fights since SB that don’t even deserve to refer to themselves as Savage (hi, Alte Roite). Extremes have suffered this same problem over the years. Hades EX, while fun, isn’t nearly as hard as HW’s Thordan EX or Sephirot EX.

If Savage is feeling like a chore for you—or isn't feeling fun—then perhaps you should take a break from it. You’re just burning yourself out for no reason when you bash your head against something you feel is so tedious.

That said, the better gear people have and the better their raid damage is, the more leeway for mistakes they have. A decent E4S group in a mixture of i460 and i470 can have a couple deaths before they have to really worry about Titan’s enrage. And you can stand to have a death before things actually start to spiral downwards unless you have healers that don’t know how to react properly to one. The only time the checks are super tight are Week 1 when everyone is in crafted gear or if you landed in a painfully average party.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

It doesn't feel fun, it just feels like a chore. A chore you get no rewards for because failure is inevitable. Been beating my head against TitaniaEX the same way. Again, it just takes one person to goof and the whole thing goes to pot. Still haven't gotten a clear on that either despite 40 or so tries.

I gasp at the thought of what people like the OP might consider to be reasonable difficulty.

Yes, Savage is something you need to study and learn and practice until you know exactly what to do. It's like a choreographed group-dance-performance: If you don't know where to stand and what to do at a specific phase your cheerleader will stumble and the whole pyramide comes crashing down. Save the cheerleader, save the world raid.

But still, while the learning and practice-part are absolutely mandatory, there are still dances very easy to learn and may require only a few hours of practice while others are so complex and fast, that you may need days or weeks to learn your steps. And that's what people mean: Older content was more demanding and you needed way longer until everything was running smoothly.

[KageTokage]

I'm honestly okay with their stated philosophy that OS12 was basically going to be the peak of savage difficulty.

Learning how to do Hello World with randoms was really rough, but still doable.

[Tracewood]

lol Savage being easy... maybe if you have a few like minded people who can do such content.

If you have a busy life and PUG it, it's a different story. Oh, and be sure to clear it within the first two weeks of the patch or finding practice parties dwindle down dramatically, (at least for the first two fights from what I've seen) and slot away some hours. Make sure your wife/husband/kids/whomever is cool with it lol.

Wish they'd change up the raid formula. Maybe instead of making it like EX trials, they should consider turning it into an 8 man dungeon on steroids. You can get loot after each checkpoint and it doesn't have that awful Savage loot mechanic where you lose out on loot if you jump ahead, it'll encourage players who completed to help those who haven't cleared without penalty for loot. It'll take as long to go through the whole thing as doing four "trials", but it'll make use of that raid finder instead of waiting all day in Party Finder.

[Razard]

a slight increase in difficulty to make the fights more engaging wouldnt really push away people from doing savage. people who raid arent usually the types to unsub because they cant clear a fght either

I remember people saying the same thing about the Final Coil of Bahamut.

Be careful what you wish for is all I'm saying.

[EaMett]

This savage tier was especially easy. I don't think it was meant to be the new standard though. I think it as meant to be introductory for the wave of new players coming over from everywhere for shadowbringers. E3S was the real disappointment though, extremely easy in general and even more shocking for a 3rd floor. The devs did mention at some point that they reduced the boss HP pool by 15% in the first tier so expect the enrage dps checks to be steeper next tier. I just hope they'll also be more mechanically demanding.
A savage fight should not be on the same level as an ex trial, which this tier was. It needs to be harder to create a gap with other tiers of content, regardless of how some other people here feel.

Ultimate is already miles above regular savage, the gap shouldn't widen and ultimate shouldn't be made easier. Leaves only one option.

[HeulGDarian]

its easy for 8 people with a half decent head on their shoulders that dont quit after the first wipe on training . Sure by pfing this doesnt happen often so it gets hard. What SE should do is first make a decent difficulty curve that teaches players how to play instead of putting easy mode on godamn story instances then if they indeed fix the curve for the older content i dont see a problem in content becoming harder cause it would be natural . i do think that more people should try out old savage content but there is barely an insentive for it. blu gave a bit of an insentive to do old raids and people hate it cause they wanted the morbol mount reward for free + hating blu in general . in the end you cant keep everyone happy but i do believe that they should either put more hardcore content cause seriously hardcore content in this game is ultimate savage and midcore/lowcore is the rest of the fcking game or make savage have a bit more difficulty cause if people feel just like you do that savage is a chore then they can just not do it i will never understand why people ask for stuff to be for them when it already is for someone else who has so much less content than they do.

[Cetonis]

E1S and E2S are in a good place difficulty-wise I think, a solid first step up from EX trials. Not every mechanic is beyond the EX trial level, but many definitely are, and for an early fight that sort of mix is fine.

By the third and fourth fights though, we should have mostly left the EX stuff behind. Yet there's been a pattern of lengthy filler, most noticeably in the fourth fights. Sequences of a minute or two or even more, where nothing that happens is any harder than a bread-and-butter EX trial mechanic.

Leviathan does really nothing of note until Stormy Horizon. I was baffled that there was no even-moderately-difficult Maelstrom. Titan has a long second phase full of largely rudimentary stuff, save for the Evil Earth combo and maybe one or two raidwide damage spikes. Final Omega had big dead periods between each Hello World and the next Patch. Omega did a bunch of nothing stuff in phase 3 before Pantokrators. And so on.

The difficulty of later fights has been very isolated into two or three sequences or one or two phases, while the remaining majority of the fight is just going through the motions. Even TEA is like this, although the difficulty of those harder parts is of course higher.

This is silly; while obviously it would extend prog and clear time to have more hard-stuff time in fights, that seems better to me than purposely making fights lame for large sections. You're already asking players to be able to execute at a certain level, asking them to do so for 70-80% of a fight instead of 30-40% shouldn't be too big of a reach.

[Khalithar]

The difficulty is all relative when it comes to savage. I did all of savage in stormblood (on content) and cleared this tier as well. If I had to rate it in difficulty I'd put it around the same difficulty as the second tier in Stormblood.

E1S is pretty easy (seriously, I feel like the boss spends more time casting than anything else).

E2S is a giant targeting dummy where the DPS check was the hardest part (Keyword: "was" as in past tense). The quietus phase is the only part I find engaging, but if your dps is good you skip almost all of it.

As a result it reminds me a lot of the first two bosses in the second tier of Stormblood (Train/Phantom).

E3S is when the tier actually got interesting for me. So far I'd have to say that this is my favorite fight in the tier, I like the movement, aoe, mechanic combinations, along with the music (especially the 3:00-3:30 part of the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhSN3QaxSAg&t=3m0s ) and the visuals.

E4S is when the tier actually got challenging for me but I say it got challenging for the wrong reasons. I don't think any of the mechanics in Titan are difficult (outside of maybe a really bad evil earth + punch combo), but they are delicate and by "delicate" I mean one mistake = death. I'm not personally a fan of that for fights even in savage mode as I've always held that a mistake can be punishing without instantly killing someone, but I digress.

TLDR version: I think the difficulty is fine for the opening savage tier but only 2/4 fights are actually interesting.

[Esp]

Dreams do come true

I saw your last post before this one today and thought: "Oh wow, this guy called it!" lol