Paladin Updates

[Sol_Aureus]

Doesn't it depend on how effective the new abilities for Pld are? Pld may be gaining a lot of self-sufficiency, allowing the whm more breathing room, virtually elminating the need to even consider taking a second? Speculation, but at least something worthy of thought. Being able to change jobs is great, too. All it costs is the 15 minute ability which are generally lackluster. There is so much versatility that none of us seem to be messin around with. I'm going to mess with things to find the best set up.

This is all just boss fight talk though, when it comes to clearing trash mobs otw to the bosses, sad to say, warrior still wins no contest.

Honestly I don't think the buffs PLD got this update give it the edge it needs. For stuff like Coincounter, sure, it's great. Divine Veil will be awesome for blocking swipes. Unfortunately though, unless they also increased the range of Divine Veil this patch, the healing effect is still not that useful considering the vast majority of the time everyone is out of range of the PLD, so the regen doesn't get much use.

Spirits within's buff is nice, but it's not like PLD had any trouble with hate before. A little extra damage output, but still nowhere close to a WAR.

Cover's buff is nice but not anything significant.

Stuff like Glower is still a huge danger to PLDs, not to mention Chimera. The point stands that because WAR's HP is so much higher than a PLD's and WARs can hold hate just fine AND they can deal significant damage that PLD is still lacking. L

Regarding virtually elminating the need to even consider taking a second WHM, like I said in my post, what class your tank is has virtually nothing to do with why people take 2 WHMs. People will still want to take 2 WHMs for that safety net.

[Jinko]

unless they also increased the range of Divine Veil this patch, the healing effect is still not that useful considering the vast majority of the time everyone is out of range of the PLD, so the regen doesn't get much use.

I've said on a few occasions AoEs need to be Party wide and not Area Effects, it would solve so much of the issue of players being out of range.

It's a bit 90s to have AoE buffs.

[TirionCrey]

Extra damage output is pointless if you have to run 2 whms vs. 1 whm. dropping a whm adds another DD job to the mix which by itself will outproduce the warrior tank in raw numbers (unless your second whm was nuking to make up the difference). Everything will be more and more situational as things are nailed down and i'm looking forward to it.

Try to beat Princess, Chimera and Misers Mistress with 1 WHM...PLDs self heals doesn't make a 2nd WHM obsolete...you still need a 2nd WHM for things like keeping the Party alive on Add phases, which a single WHM can't do plus keep the PLD alive...god people, start thinking pls.

[Xianghua]

As Long as Speed Runs are a thing. War will most likely always beat PLD. Taking too much dmg is never an issue in any fight in this game. It's getting the entire parties dps as high as you can. PLD just can't compete in this area and never will.

[Velhart]

Honestly, SE kind of put themselves into this situation by making speed runs in dungeons. If that wasn't the case, people wouldn't be as influenced to take Warrior over Paladin.

But honestly, just making us more magic defense friendly would do wonders. I went in originally thinking WAR would be better with physical damage and PLD having better magic defense. Between the two it is kind of the same and assuming you have a good healer with you, WAR will be the way to go.

This is why I don't like speed runs. It influences people to do whatever they can to make sure it goes as fast as possible. So what is the end result, ruling out those who can't perform as well in DPS. While this may happen even without timers, I think people would be better without.

What did people do in DH? Find best class to do speed run (Mage/ARC DPS). Ifrit had timers, what did people do? Find best type of group (All LNC DPS). What did people in Moogle do? Again (All ARC DPS). If you don't get the pattern yet, it has been all mainly influenced by the timers given to us.

I can't say the end results wouldn't be the same if done differently, but I do want to see what would happen if timers were not a factor in our succession.

[Rydin]

I've got both... and let me tell you....
PLD has more hate potential....

You can hate on that if you like... But it's true....
If someone wants to sit down and do math... thats fine... lets do it

Warrior is the preferred tank because the HP is just... incredible....
That is the ONLY reason....

the biggest and more incredible enmity grabber IN THE GAME......
EVER AND OF ALL TIME IS:
....
........
..........
AOE RAMPART
Couple that with War drum and your Warrior has to do WAY MORE DAMAGE than PLD to have more hate... more damage than what is possible....

Warrior is the tank because Bosses can hit the tank for 3k damage and PLD's HP just isn't ready for that kind of action
But hate for hate... PLD wins... ALL DAY...

Being physically invincible 1/3 of the time (Divine Veil - 20 seconds, 60 second recast) helps a little... but still not safe enough to say I'd go PLD over WAR in a battle

Also... Collusion is just so much more useful than Cover (Not that cover isn't useful)
It's just easier to know when to use collusion. "BLM, you're about to cast Firaga??? ok, collusioning you now"
With cover.... Its like "If I actually loose hate... I'll cover you"

[FraenirVolsung]

I think a very simple way to have improved PLD more than any of these changes made today would have been to take the block requirement away from War Drum. Up the TP requirement to 1000, have the timer at 60 seconds, and make it combo with Shield Bash for extra AoE damage. Even if it did half the damage of WAR's AoE Weapon Skills, enmity + dmg might allow PLD to keep up with handling multiple enemies at once. Having to rely on block for one of only two AoE abilities, when block is already rare on tough enemies, is crippling.

[Alderton]

I think a very simple way to have improved PLD more than any of these changes made today would have been to take the block requirement away from War Drum. Up the TP requirement to 1000, have the timer at 60 seconds, and make it combo with Shield Bash for extra AoE damage. Even if it did half the damage of WAR's AoE Weapon Skills, enmity + dmg might allow PLD to keep up with handling multiple enemies at once. Having to rely on block for one of only two AoE abilities, when block is already rare on tough enemies, is crippling.

Then GLA would still be better than PLD. They tried to fix the job without also buffing the class.

[FraenirVolsung]

Then GLA would still be better than PLD. They tried to fix the job without also buffing the class.

That's not to say that they shouldn't have adjusted the abilities as they did today. They are all nice improvements. I just meant that PLD needs to be able to handle a crowd if it is going to compete with WAR.

[Rydin]

That's not to say that they shouldn't have adjusted the abilities as they did today. They are all nice improvements. I just meant that PLD needs to be able to handle a crowd if it is going to compete with WAR.

TBH.... warrior doesn't do good with crowds either.... Steel Cyclone is pointless once the first AOE nuke goes out