Paladin Updates

[Aceofspades]

wow, HP huh? its cool yall keep your HP, i will stick with my def/vit. as far as interuption gose on spell casting, thats where skill comes in, first off you shouldnt ever be down to 10% health, but if you are, the fastest way to buy yourself time is ageious boon and or devine veil (after hot patch) ageious boon negates any physical damage taken and rewards hp acording to damage deflected. shouldnt have to tell yall bout devine veil. in anyrate, I can see this argument going no where soo guess i will conclude to agree to disagree, and say easier is not automaticly better. knowing what to cast or use and when to do so takes skill, if you lack this , then sure, WAR is the tank i would recomend for you, but if you want a true tank, then i would suggest mastering PLD. that being said i thank you all who disagree with me, honestly i do, with anyluck all this hype will end up buffing PLD even further, just be ware, if SE dosent want to op the job by accedent the only other option is to nerf war. Just sayin

[Otaku]

Situation tanking and how I see it
1:a: Tanking mob(s) with phys atk and/or boss with phys "1 shot" = Gimme the PLD (greater blocking/dmg mitigation)
b: Tanking mob(s) with more mgc atk and/or boss with mgc "1 shot" = Gimme the WAR (both suck at mgc mitigation, higher HP wins)
2:a: Tanking when pt has 3+ melee DD's = Gimme the PLD (aoe rampart has no equal imo for hate generation)
b: Tanking when pt has 3+ ranged DD's = Gimme the PLD (both can hold hate but if range gets hit PLD can heal them and self and get it back faster)
3: Tanking multiple mobs = Both do about the same, WAR has Cyclone and PLD has aoe flash/wardrum

Now the reason WAR is a better tank atm......
1. If you're tanking on PLD and your blocks are on CD boss might "1 shot" you, no one wants that, gimme the WAR
2. There's alot of magic out there and w/o maybe a "Shell" job trait PLD is taking just as much dmg, gimme the WAR
3. PLD does crap dmg and content is about speed atm, gimme the WAR
4. PT's are running 2xWHM atm (smart if you ask me), so it's 2.5 WHM/PLD vs 4.5 DD/WAR, no need for more then two healers and PLD isn't quite a full healer so gimme the WAR

Could PLD > WAR? Only time will tell ><;;

[Rexes]

Imagine if they nerf warrior one of those days..

[Alerith]

wow, HP huh? its cool yall keep your HP, i will stick with my def/vit. as far as interuption gose on spell casting, thats where skill comes in, first off you shouldnt ever be down to 10% health, but if you are, the fastest way to buy yourself time is ageious boon and or devine veil (after hot patch) ageious boon negates any physical damage taken and rewards hp acording to damage deflected. shouldnt have to tell yall bout devine veil. in anyrate, I can see this argument going no where soo guess i will conclude to agree to disagree, and say easier is not automaticly better. knowing what to cast or use and when to do so takes skill, if you lack this , then sure, WAR is the tank i would recomend for you, but if you want a true tank, then i would suggest mastering PLD. that being said i thank you all who disagree with me, honestly i do, with anyluck all this hype will end up buffing PLD even further, just be ware, if SE dosent want to op the job by accedent the only other option is to nerf war. Just sayin

As an ardent PLD player and supporter, I'm going to have to disagree with several points here.

Firstly, there are some situations where you will be forced to low HP. PLD and WAR alike are still subject to DYING. They are just as mortal as any other class, it simply takes a greater amount of damage to get them to a lifeless state. There are plenty of attacks that can drop you from low white to red. Also, neither Aegis Boon nor Divine Veil will save you from magic damage.

What I DO believe, is that PLD has much more self-substantiation than WAR. I believe PLD can maintain control over hate.

The problem is that WAR can be substantiated by sources outside of it's own abilities (i.e. WHM) and it also has solid hate control while contributing damage.

If someone argues that a PLD CAN'T tank something or they are useless, then they are simply being dense and closed minded. A PLD can perform just fine, it just isn't the most efficient means.

I'm not arguing that WAR is better for the job. Currently, it simply is. I do take issue with people who assume PLD can't do it at all, just because it doesn't do it like WAR.

[Luhy]

A good way to tell if a job is too weak is to imagine it in PvP. PLD has no damage, cant cure with a bunch of people on them, has low HP, no damage mitigation aside from Sentinel and frontal attacks and has no reliable "get off me" abilities. It has no place and no purpose that other jobs can't achieve more efficiently. It needs to be important in some way.

[TirionCrey]

I'm not sure if you know what AOE means... but AOE rampart is indeed the biggest hate puller.. and no... WAR doesn't have that

I know what AoE means, and even if AoE Rampart generates more hate due to more people getting hit by it, it doesn't change the fact that it's not even nearly the biggest hate puller...not even close...a stupid Provoke generates more hate then Rampart, so does Flash, so does our Enmity Combo...so does almost anything hate related in the game...

Simple test. Group of mobs...let a BLM Firaga or Flare them. Use Rampart, you won't even get yellow on them. Use Provoke/Flash and it goes yellow, using both it goes red.

Now the best part about this. On WAR use Collusion on the BLM before he uses Firaga/Flare...all mobs blinking red for you...what's better?

And just to counter the stupid arguments that you won't Collusion a BLM mid fight...yeah we won't cause he's out of range for us to get the hate effect, since your target needs to be close to you.

Idk how others do it, but whoever is MNK in my group, I annoucne Collusion CD is gonna be up in a few seconds, MNK replies with whenever he is ready for his Dragon Kick combo and right before Blindside Dragon Kick I use Collusion on him. This alone is worth more then 4 Ramparts used in a row...

Nobody ever denied that PLD get's his shit done as well...the fact is that WAR get's it done better in each and every single part of being a tank.

[Alerith]

A good way to tell if a job is too weak is to imagine it in PvP. PLD has no damage, cant cure with a bunch of people on them, has low HP, no damage mitigation aside from Sentinel and frontal attacks and has no reliable "get off me" abilities. It has no place and no purpose that other jobs can't achieve more efficiently. It needs to be important in some way.

That's actually a horrible way to judge ANY job.

First of all, you've placed the PLD into a situation where it can't possibly win. NO job in that situation, with multiple people on them, is going to be able to survive something like that. Do you think your WAR is going to kill all the players with Steel Cyclone? Or a BLM is going to stop them all with Flare?

Also, PvP is an absolutely horrible way to judge a job's usefulness outside of PvP, and I'm going to use FFXI as a means of illustrating that:

In FFXI, PLD is one of the most unneeded and undesired jobs for most content. But it's one of the best PvP jobs you can use. Ninja, arguably, has far more utility than PLD in many cases, and a PLD can wipe the floor with a NIN in PvP. (No disrespect to the NIN job.)

Does the PLD's ability to shine in PvP make it more practical for PvE play? Absolutely not.

TL;DR: Your example is flawed.

Also:

Nobody ever denied that PLD get's his shit done as well...the fact is that WAR get's it done better in each and every single part of being a tank.

This a thousand times over.

I will defend PLD until the sky falls. (See what I did there?)

The fact remains that WAR does it better, but PLD is still capable of doing it.

[TirionCrey]

I'm awake now, and I was going to let this die, but since you looked at my pro, tell me.... what other characters do I play? have I played? what have a i fought? how tall am i? You, like other fools who think pro is end all of information, know nothing about me.

Second, i'm glad you said Pld can do it, earlier you said it couldn't. I said long ago that warrior is easier, I already agreed to that, and suggested to those who love pld and would play it if they could, that they IN FACT CAN do everyting on Pld, they just like easy/lazy mode.

Sorry for the bump, I'll let this die regardless of response or no response.

Sorry that I dared to post while you were sleeping...won't happen again (unless you are sleeping atm...)

Then...I looked at your PRO, cause Lodestone was down...actually your achievements on PRO weren't updated for over 3 weeks, so I looked at your LS mates (which I assume your characters, no matter how many of them you might have...poor excuse btw...are in the LS as well, unless you are hiding your characters from your "friends") and barely a group of them has Miser down. So what can you actually provide to this conversation that is not pure assumptions on your end, given you haven't even done most of the content hence barely tanked any of the content, if at all...just keep your assumptions to yourself, cause you have nothing to say on the matter.

@Alerith: Yeah, if it's about class balance and overall performance, endgame is the only thing that matters, cause that's where advantages/disadvantages of a class matter.

@Lux_Rayna: We do Miser with 1 BLM, 1 BRD and 3 MNKs...PLD can't do shit with this setup, cause MNKs rip off hate from him after the first 15seconds of fighting while WAR can maintain hate...and stop using AoE Rampart as if it's the holy grail...it's a crap ability that generates crap enmity, no matter how many people you hit with it. I'm only using it cause I try to fool myself that it actually does something. You are talking about if people actually tested setups with PLD...fact is you haven't tested anything yet, but still try to act as if you know what works when in fact you don't.
The actual people here talking about PLD and WAR who have a clue, know what they are talking about BECAUSE they tested it, while everyone else who has no clue is just spreading assumptions and "He said, she said" BS.

Just stop argueing if you got no clue what you are talking about, cause it might confuse the Devs into thinking PLD is right as it is...

@Aceofspades: After reading all your posts I don't even know what to tell you. I'll try to keep it short, although it's wasted time nonetheless, cause you just got no clue of anything apparently.

The hardest fight is on farm mode for most LSs? Although I know you are refering to Ifrit, I'll try to tell you one more time. Ifrit is the easiest fight right now, even Batraal is harder then him...you haven't done anything in the game so far besides Ifrit, so obviously you don't know anything about tanking the current endgame content...
PLD has no encounter to shine atm, cause they are all easy mode? Well...PLD has no encounter to shine atm, cause PLD can't shine no matter what encounter they might implement.

Oh and btw...if you need more than 2 DDs to counter Ifrits Regen, I feel sorry for your DDs on Ifrit...we could put all DDs on standby after Nails except one and he would get Ifrit down by himself...

[AegisXI]

Because endgame is the only thing that matters....

Theres always other stuff u can do then endgame... but u already found that out which is complaining... And if endgame is the only thing that matters then do what most ppl do and get with it.

[Phobos]

wow, HP huh? its cool yall keep your HP, i will stick with my def/vit. as far as interuption gose on spell casting, thats where skill comes in, first off you shouldnt ever be down to 10% health, but if you are, the fastest way to buy yourself time is ageious boon and or devine veil (after hot patch) ageious boon negates any physical damage taken and rewards hp acording to damage deflected. shouldnt have to tell yall bout devine veil. in anyrate, I can see this argument going no where soo guess i will conclude to agree to disagree, and say easier is not automaticly better. knowing what to cast or use and when to do so takes skill, if you lack this , then sure, WAR is the tank i would recomend for you, but if you want a true tank, then i would suggest mastering PLD. that being said i thank you all who disagree with me, honestly i do, with anyluck all this hype will end up buffing PLD even further, just be ware, if SE dosent want to op the job by accedent the only other option is to nerf war. Just sayin

You don't seem to get it... Are you even playing the same game? Most things where having a tank actually matters use magical attacks. PLD cannot block these, and has absolutely no advantage over WAR. WAR, on the other hand, has more HP meaning the attack does less % to their HP and they have a greater chance to survive.

It's the fact that PLD has no magical damage mitigation that makes people still use WAR. I've said this before and I'll say it again:

PLD should be so much better than WAR at tanking that there isn't even a discussion about it.