Paladin Updates

[Peptaru]

The new fixes will hopefully help that(block rate), there are a lot of attacks a shield won't do much for, but just as many that it will, expect these numbers to be noticably higher tomorrow! Nap time, as a signature suggests ProTip: an 8 hour nap is just called sleeping.

[Lux_Rayna]

Rampage, Bloobath, and crit gear would like to have a word with you.

I took that into account, but thats not as reliable as cure or the other heal skills a PLD has. When it comes to self-healing, i'd rather it not come down to luck and the amount of dmg you happen to do. It is awesome when it works but as far as self-sufficiency goes a WAR has almost none, except for the exception you just noted.

I want to see a really good PLD and a really good WAR to make comparisons. It sounds like most of these comparisons are based on bad PLDs. PLD sounds like it has a much higher learning curve than WAR, so its more likely to produce lackluster results through personal experience.

[Aion]

for Ifrit I can share my experience as healer. Currently I prefer WAR as tank because it has higher HP, so better buffer on damage. While actually PLD is not bad either, but PLD takes similar damage (because of elemental attack?).As someone said, if the healer(s) getting cracks on last phase, it will be serious danger on the WAR tank, this is when PLD is better on WAR coz the self sufficiency (except when they run out of MP lol)

[Takinagi]

I took that into account, but thats not as reliable as cure or the other heal skills a PLD has. When it comes to self-healing, i'd rather it not come down to luck and the amount of dmg you happen to do. It is awesome when it works but as far as self-sufficiency goes a WAR has almost none, except for the exception you just noted.

I want to see a really good PLD and a really good WAR to make comparisons. It sounds like most of these comparisons are based on bad PLDs. PLD sounds like it has a much higher learning curve than WAR, so its more likely to produce lackluster results through personal experience.

I never really played WAR until Chimera and it was much easier then PLD. Maybe I am a bad PLD but really my 1st time tanking chimera on WAR and I found it like 10000x easier then PLD. Something is wrong me thinks.

[TirionCrey]

Please stop saying this... warrior tanks are preferred for the HP... not enmity....
Yes warrior does more damage...
but come on
Take coincounter as an example....
With AOE rampart (The biggest hate puller in the game) and war drum....
that alone makes up for the extra WAR damage....
And if that wasn't enough... PLD can spam Holy Succor and cure..... in which case you'd have to do more than 1k damage every 10 seconds consistently to build that much hate.....
Massive enmity abilities... massive healing and decent damage.... PLD pulls more hate....

WAR is the tank of choice because PLD just has 2 major problems...

1. HP... thats a big deal

2. A lot of PLD hate relies on healing... but then PLD gets abilities that mitigate damage
Protect + Stoneskin + Divine Veil + Aegis Boon and you can literally spend 45 seconds of every minute not taking physical damage. So you either ignore the abilities so you can heal and build hate... or use the abilities and hope there are enough people around you when you cast "Rampart" to generate the enmity needed
Its a design flaw... for sure

You are making up numbers here. 45 secs of every minute? Divine Veil is forced Blocks, not 100% mitigated blocks. You could take 500dmg instead of 600 on a hit, it will just be blocked. To be sure we would have to wait for the servers going up and tests being made.

Enmity wise...Rampart, are you kidding me, biggest hate puller in the game?

I'll give you simple and straight facts for this.

PLD Hate Abilities:

Fast/Flat Blade Combo
Sentinel(raises Enmity generated by other actions)
Rampart
Provoke
Flash
Holy Succor(considering you actually heal yourself, not overheal)

That's it.

Now WAR:

Heavy Swing/Skull Sunder Combo(not to forget Steel Cyclone)
Provoke
Flash
Rampart(oh wait WAR has access to Rampart, the biggest hate puller in the game O.o)
Sentinel
Antagonize(same as Sentinel, raises enmity generated by other actions)
Collusion(gets you the hate of the next action performed by your target close to you, which on a Blindside Dragon Kick just kills PLD alone)

So....the only difference between WAR and PLD hate abilities is Holy Succor...awesome...

To even show you how much better WAR is I'll show you his other advantages...

WAR:

Second Wind(heal yourself for roughly 500HP), since no cast time you actually heal yourself everytime you need to be healed and get enmity for it
Vengeance(counter dmg done to you)
Featherfoot(guaranteed Evade)
Foresight(guaranteed Parry)

While PLD got:

Aegis Boon(guaranteed Block)
Hallowed Ground(15 sec 0 physical dmg)

I can clearly see the advantages of PLD over WAR...especially hate wise, since WAR has access to all PLD hate abilities, while PLD get's Provoke...awesome! JUST AWESOME! You opened my eyes, PLD is the tank for hate!

[Lux_Rayna]

for Ifrit I can share my experience as healer. Currently I prefer WAR as tank because it has higher HP, so better buffer on damage. While actually PLD is not bad either, but PLD takes similar damage (because of elemental attack?).As someone said, if the healer(s) getting cracks on last phase, it will be serious danger on the WAR tank, this is when PLD is better on WAR coz the self sufficiency (except when they run out of MP lol)

PLD's really need to start investing in mp regens lol. BRD songs could probably help too? Do ppl use that with PLD's?

Ifrit is a pretty good example where PLD vs WAR is not necessarily clear-cut. Elemental dmg makes def useless so you'd probably go with WAR due to more hp. In emergencies, as you said, PLD is preferable due to its abilities. Maybe PLD's should meld HP/block to their gear, taking their naturally buffed defense as is. Maybe they should meld healing potency too?

Ppl just gotta figure it out~ give PLD the right pieces, and the right player, and we'll see how it really compares lol.

[TirionCrey]

lol , what?!, I can soo take Ifrit with a single WHM in party and keep hate easly, much less duel whm? as far as the other bosses... what other bosses? to my knowledge Ifrit is still the hardest one.

To quote another person. Who the fuck cares about Ifrit? He is not even nearly the hardest fight in the game, hell even Batraal is harder...of course PLD can tank Ifrit...

And to throw you a bone hre Peptaru. Of course PLD can tank Chimera, Coincounter, Princess and Miser as well...but WAR does it better. That's the whole point.

[Takinagi]

It all sums down to War does a better job so why the hell would you use Pld...Oh wait people enjoy been useless and play jobs that doesn't benefit the party at all.

[Aceofspades]

wich is realy my only point, PLD is more survivable, and its that very surviavability that genertates constant, massive hate. I do not disagree that WAR can controll larger groups of mobss more efficiently but WAR (fact) dosent have the surviavablity as PLD, Not saying it cant be done, just saying compairing the two is like compairing apples and oranges. Each has its time to shine , but I am tired and this is getting repetative. in one week or soo I will post more parses of both jobs same fights and same avg time , will do multiple boss fights , I know for the fan boys and trolls it will make no differance, but for those who truly want to KNOW what jobs do great in wich positions , I am sure you will apreciate the info. till then

[Lux_Rayna]

I can clearly see the advantages of PLD over WAR...especially hate wise, since WAR has access to all PLD hate abilities, while PLD get's Provoke...awesome! JUST AWESOME! You opened my eyes, PLD is the tank for hate!

Do you know the hate values for things like hallowed ground and holy succor + cure spams as compared to all the WAR abilities you listed? I'm guessing no, since I dont see any tests anywhere. Quality over quantity as the saying goes...just because you have more abilities doesn't mean you build the most enmity. For the longest time all a THM had to do was spam two skills without mercy and would pull the hate off of you no matter what you did. Even now a GLA has to spam idk how many skills just to avoid losing enmity to a measly two skills. Thats where you argument has a big gaping hole. The number of them is irrelevant, the amount of hate each generates is the important piece of information.

And I bet you are missing that piece of information when it comes to PLD skills. I'm not saying you're incorrect, you *could* be right in theory..but you could also be wrong in theory. The basis of your claim is off is all im telling you.